Always a Wasp

General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Mrs. Peter Quinn on February 23, 2019, 02:15:18 PM

Title: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Mrs. Peter Quinn on February 23, 2019, 02:15:18 PM
Haven't seen one so here it is..

Very disappointed with the quality of refereeing so far; Morris penalised for not rolling away when he was on his feet and there were three sharks on the floor..

A good looking Wasps scrum penalised leading to a sale try from a quick tap.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Raggs on February 23, 2019, 02:24:34 PM
No idea what he was doing with the Morris turnover, but the scrum pen was spot on. ZZ started boring in, and it wasn't until he did that we went forwards, correct call.

We just can't keep hold of the ball.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 23, 2019, 02:25:24 PM
0-7, 20 mins in. Only comfort, could have been more. Also couldn't understand the Morris penalty.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 23, 2019, 02:36:06 PM
05-14. Solomona try followed by Ashley - conversion missed. We really need to up our intensity. Giving Sale an easy ride.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Raggs on February 23, 2019, 02:41:31 PM
We just seem to be knocking the ball on, again, and again, and again. Breakdown clearouts are awful too, often running on our own. Just trying too much.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 23, 2019, 02:50:46 PM
8-17 HT. Faf kicking (3/3). We're flat but can still win this one. Some of the ref's decisions are a bit peculiar.  Not clear what Sale's final penalty was for >:(
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Raggs on February 23, 2019, 02:52:11 PM
Some very poor kicking too, especially Simpson and WLR.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Raggs on February 23, 2019, 03:07:49 PM
Gaby barely ever passes, and nearly always runs the crashball, which is fine, but can the rest of the squad please understand this, and support him so we don't get nearly turned over every time.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 23, 2019, 03:20:24 PM
15-17 Try Simmo. 27 minutes to go. Jack Willis on. Huge cheer. TT also on.

Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Raggs on February 23, 2019, 03:26:21 PM
How are you supposed to tackle a player when they're 2ft off the ground?
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 23, 2019, 03:31:24 PM
15-24. Penalty try and Nemo in the bin for a supposed high tackle stopping Solomona going over (probably). 20 minutes to go. We're not getting the rub of the green today >:(
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Raggs on February 23, 2019, 03:49:15 PM
Will Stuart, you muppet.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Chunky24 on February 23, 2019, 04:40:21 PM
Speed from the base of rucks the difference for me, Joe industrious but often ponderous while Faf was threatening and always sharp.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: westwaleswasp on February 23, 2019, 04:44:51 PM
Well, that was deflating.
Again what threat we had was in the forwards. The desire to get the ball wide baffles me, miss passes to pass to a man lined up is not the way to get it wide.

Some credit to the back row, they played manfully.
Struggling to find much to be positive about. No fizz, except in the woeful alcoholic products on sale, little clue and yet it seemed winnable.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on February 23, 2019, 05:41:38 PM
Back now from the game. Some good performances out there, but some were blowing after 20 minutes.

Simpson back to being slow. For me the difference was the defence in the backs. Sale fast up, disrupting, two on one tackles. We were not fast up, one on one tackles.

WLR had a good game in attack and defence. Kicking was better (but not great at times). Back to what I know he can do. Simpson was stellar in defence. Our forwards were OK. Aside from being sent off, Carr had a good game. Ashley was outstanding. Willis back to his normal self, great to see him back.

Lovobalavu showed nothing of consequence, same with Watson. I thought Sopoaga had a good game, went off injured (was it his hand?). Miller did well at 10 when he came on.

Rowlands had quite a poor game, as did Stuart.

Overall, Sales deserved that win. Looking at our remaining fixtures, it is hard to be positive about us getting a top 6 finish.

Final view? Our backs had no vision. Keep putting it wide doesn't work. If we had kept it in the forwards and slowly moved forwards, we would have done better. Which is a sad thing to say.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 23, 2019, 05:48:53 PM
Very frustrating. That was one that got away. Sale only seemed to have one plan - give it to Solomona. He should have been ruthlessly marked out of the game from early on. I know easier said than done. Unfortunately Josh seemed to give him far too much respect (if that is the right word).
I thought Marcus was very secure on the other wing. Seemed up for it.
Simmo didn't seem to want to mix it with Faf. Maybe he felt he might get caught out?
Should have brought Charlie Matthews on with 15/20 to go. Dai doesn't seem to have the same confidence in him that we do. I do wonder why?
We sure have been missing Jack Willis.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 23, 2019, 05:55:44 PM
As an aside - I thought Andrew Jackson was a bit out of his depth. I don't think either team actually benefited but both teams were certainly confused at times. There was quite a bit of on going niggle which he never really managed to contain. At one point he marched Sale back 10 for backchat which was a point in his favour. Gave Willie a lecture for waving his arms about.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: andermt on February 23, 2019, 06:59:07 PM
Jackson was poor, I sit near the Wasps bench and I've never seen the Wasps coaches so angry, they were constantly complaining to the 4th official, even on a really bad game I've never seen them that upset.
He had pretty much no control of the game.

Similarly to NellyWellyWaspy I though Lima had a decent game, nice chip forward to De Jong and a great off load out the back door being 2 nice pieces for skill that stood out.
He came off with a hand injury which I hope isn't serious.

For me we are weak at 9 with Dobby away, if Eddie isn't going to play him can we get him back. Simmo was back to his slow self and Hampson isn't at the right level which showed in the last few minutes when we should have won that game.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Neils on February 23, 2019, 07:11:40 PM
Jackson was poor, I sit near the Wasps bench and I've never seen the Wasps coaches so angry, they were constantly complaining to the 4th official, even on a really bad game I've never seen them that upset.
He had pretty much no control of the game.

Similarly to NellyWellyWaspy I though Lima had a decent game, nice chip forward to De Jong and a great off load out the back door being 2 nice pieces for skill that stood out.
He came off with a hand injury which I hope isn't serious.

For me we are weak at 9 with Dobby away, if Eddie isn't going to play him can we get him back. Simmo was back to his slow self and Hampson isn't at the right level which showed in the last few minutes when we should have won that game.

Back home and agree with this. I thought some of Lima's touches were good. Simpson had me screaming at him to speed up. I can't believe we are so bad without Robson and Young. Stuart made some silly decisions and for me Gaby did very little. Watson seemed quiet but with his size what can you really expect.
The ref was dire and the touch judges were silent. On reflink the TMO was actively butting in.
Just been told by other half that some part has had a direct go at Lima on Twitter- I think that is uncalled for.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Hymenoptera on February 23, 2019, 07:29:17 PM
The officials display was very poor. I watched on HD TV and can confirm the high wasn't a high, even Denny didn't complain. You can clearly see he doesn't slip up, it was a spot on tackle and a poor decision tucked us up.
Certain players need to look at themselves actually, I wont call them out but they are meant to be professionals and just arent delivering.
We really needed that win....
Now all the luddites will be coming out of the woodwork calling for Dai and generally trolling...
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on February 23, 2019, 07:32:36 PM
At one point I heard (on the reflink) one of the officials (the TMO I think) call Zhvania an @rsehole. The TMO had told Jackson he needed to have a talk with the 'Black #1' (black was how they referred to Wasps). Jackson said that he had and mumbled something like, 'not that it will make any difference' (or words to that effect), then the TMO replied. I think it was whilst Faf was lining up a kick at goal in the first half.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Neils on February 23, 2019, 07:37:02 PM
Had forgotten that. ZZ certainly seemed to get on their collective nerves.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: westwaleswasp on February 23, 2019, 10:45:06 PM
Have to admit, I suspect that people are so desperate for Lima to succeed and for the real Lima to step up that I fear they are clutching at straws.
 It seems especially harsh that Hampson gets slaughtered by people here and on DW whenever he puts the shirt on and yet Lima has delivered Hampson quality performances time and time again this year. If a championship signing had performed as Lima has for much of this year he would have had the hot coals treatment.
Perhaps it is ok to lambast the third choice scrum half, perhaps not. Like most I believe you win and lose as a team, but if you are going to discuss individuals then a bit of consistency is needed. I certainly think Limas' name, and good guy reputation and the desire to not crticise Dai indirectly have insulated him from attack from many,  as has his late start and the injury list. Poor old Hampson has none of those excuses despite playing in the same disrupted backline low on confidence, just like Lima, and frankly has been about as effective in his position as Lima has in his. It is probably true that some have gone the other way, totally ott in blaming Lima, but for my money some equally dismissive ott comments have been made about Miller, Hampson and other second or third choices.

Now in terms of contract renewal it is fair to say "I think x does not offer enough", but on the match threads I think there is a tendency, more there than here, to single out players for good and ill, and to exaggerate their games. I have probably done it myself, especially in laudation, but it is something I would like to do less of on the various match threads.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Brandnewtorugby on February 24, 2019, 08:10:03 AM
At one point I heard (on the reflink) one of the officials (the TMO I think) call Zhvania an @rsehole. The TMO had told Jackson he needed to have a talk with the 'Black #1' (black was how they referred to Wasps). Jackson said that he had and mumbled something like, 'not that it will make any difference' (or words to that effect), then the TMO replied. I think it was whilst Faf was lining up a kick at goal in the first half.

That's outrageous and the officials should at least be spoken to about that. What would be the sanction for a player or coach broadcasting those words about an official?
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on February 24, 2019, 09:20:56 AM
Elliot was banned for speaking disrespectfully about an official a few years ago. And Hughes was banned for tweeting something disrespectful about the disciplinary process.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: RogerE on February 24, 2019, 09:27:26 AM
At one point I heard (on the reflink) one of the officials (the TMO I think) call Zhvania an @rsehole. The TMO had told Jackson he needed to have a talk with the 'Black #1' (black was how they referred to Wasps). Jackson said that he had and mumbled something like, 'not that it will make any difference' (or words to that effect), then the TMO replied. I think it was whilst Faf was lining up a kick at goal in the first half.

Your reflink must be clearer than ours, because a couple of us were listening by reflink, and neither of us heard that. I agree about the "not make a difference" quote though.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: NellyWellyWaspy on February 24, 2019, 10:46:32 AM
At one point I heard (on the reflink) one of the officials (the TMO I think) call Zhvania an @rsehole. The TMO had told Jackson he needed to have a talk with the 'Black #1' (black was how they referred to Wasps). Jackson said that he had and mumbled something like, 'not that it will make any difference' (or words to that effect), then the TMO replied. I think it was whilst Faf was lining up a kick at goal in the first half.

Your reflink must be clearer than ours, because a couple of us were listening by reflink, and neither of us heard that. I agree about the "not make a difference" quote though.

It came straight after that reply by Jackson, very quietly. I suspect it was under his breath. If there was anybody else in the 'booth' that the TMO uses, it could have been them, picked up by the TMO mic. I guess there must by a VT person in there at least.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: andermt on February 24, 2019, 11:49:36 AM
Have to admit, I suspect that people are so desperate for Lima to succeed and for the real Lima to step up that I fear they are clutching at straws.
 It seems especially harsh that Hampson gets slaughtered by people here and on DW whenever he puts the shirt on and yet Lima has delivered Hampson quality performances time and time again this year. If a championship signing had performed as Lima has for much of this year he would have had the hot coals treatment.
Perhaps it is ok to lambast the third choice scrum half, perhaps not. Like most I believe you win and lose as a team, but if you are going to discuss individuals then a bit of consistency is needed. I certainly think Limas' name, and good guy reputation and the desire to not crticise Dai indirectly have insulated him from attack from many,  as has his late start and the injury list. Poor old Hampson has none of those excuses despite playing in the same disrupted backline low on confidence, just like Lima, and frankly has been about as effective in his position as Lima has in his. It is probably true that some have gone the other way, totally ott in blaming Lima, but for my money some equally dismissive ott comments have been made about Miller, Hampson and other second or third choices.

Now in terms of contract renewal it is fair to say "I think x does not offer enough", but on the match threads I think there is a tendency, more there than here, to single out players for good and ill, and to exaggerate their games. I have probably done it myself, especially in laudation, but it is something I would like to do less of on the various match threads.

Not sure Hampson is, to quote, getting slaughtered on here.
I certainly only pointed out that he isn't at the level we need with Dobby away, If we look at the control on the last 5 minutes in Ashton Gate where Dobby was managing the end of the game very well to the end of the match yesterday where we constantly had single runners with no back up and the ineveitable penalty resulted, the position we were in we should have closed out that game with a win. There are times this season where Hampson has been okay, remembering he is our 3rd choice SH, and as 3rd choice we do need to expect a player not at the right level for the Premiership.
For me the biggest issue is our 2nd choice, a few years ago it was nip and tuck between Simmo & Dobby, but there is a clear 1st & 2nd now and TBH the concern I have is that Simmo can't see out 80mins, Dobby does regularly, which means we need to rely on our 3rd choice probably too much.

Lima hasn't been great at times but he does get an unfair press mostly I think because he isn't Cips.
Yesterday I feel he was showing some of why he is here, he managed things well with some of the skills we are expecting to see.

Overall our 9's and 10's are struggling as they change so much, especially with the changes at 12 as well.

I hope after the 6 nations we will start to show exactly what we expect with Dobby & Gopps back. With only 6 games left at that point to the end of the season its all a bit late unfortunately.

Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Heathen on February 24, 2019, 01:11:04 PM
Everyone fit will be available for the Glaws match.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Hymenoptera on February 24, 2019, 01:14:24 PM
Have to admit, I suspect that people are so desperate for Lima to succeed and for the real Lima to step up that I fear they are clutching at straws.
 It seems especially harsh that Hampson gets slaughtered by people here and on DW whenever he puts the shirt on and yet Lima has delivered Hampson quality performances time and time again this year. If a championship signing had performed as Lima has for much of this year he would have had the hot coals treatment.
Perhaps it is ok to lambast the third choice scrum half, perhaps not. Like most I believe you win and lose as a team, but if you are going to discuss individuals then a bit of consistency is needed. I certainly think Limas' name, and good guy reputation and the desire to not crticise Dai indirectly have insulated him from attack from many,  as has his late start and the injury list. Poor old Hampson has none of those excuses despite playing in the same disrupted backline low on confidence, just like Lima, and frankly has been about as effective in his position as Lima has in his. It is probably true that some have gone the other way, totally ott in blaming Lima, but for my money some equally dismissive ott comments have been made about Miller, Hampson and other second or third choices.

Now in terms of contract renewal it is fair to say "I think x does not offer enough", but on the match threads I think there is a tendency, more there than here, to single out players for good and ill, and to exaggerate their games. I have probably done it myself, especially in laudation, but it is something I would like to do less of on the various match threads.

Which thread are you referring to, i can't find it...and I dont recall seeing anything of that nature here.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: westwaleswasp on February 24, 2019, 05:46:13 PM
Just to be clear, it is far more over there than here that Hampson gets a kicking, as with most threads here there is much less hyperbolic and vituperative discussion generally (let us drink to that).

I did say more there than here, but at the top of the post indicated it applies to both sites, which it probably doesn't, I am sure there has been the odd negative comment about him here (one poster, who I often agree with and whose posts I value highly said after the Bath game that "Hampson has got worse, didn't think it was possible" or similar, which was perhaps a tad unfair) but those are not really the ones that annoy me, the odd comnent after a loss like that is to be expected, and nothing like the slaughtering he gets over there.

Mea culpa, I should gave read that one through before posting.

I do stand by the content of the post, that aside, I do feel he gets a rough ride over there, and at times has performed not much worse than Simpson.

Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Vespula Vulgaris on February 24, 2019, 08:10:08 PM
Just to be clear, it is far more over there than here that Hampson gets a kicking, as with most threads here there is much less hyperbolic and vituperative discussion generally (let us drink to that).

I did say more there than here, but at the top of the post indicated it applies to both sites, which it probably doesn't, I am sure there has been the odd negative comment about him here (one poster, who I often agree with and whose posts I value highly said after the Bath game that "Hampson has got worse, didn't think it was possible" or similar, which was perhaps a tad unfair) but those are not really the ones that annoy me, the odd comnent after a loss like that is to be expected, and nothing like the slaughtering he gets over there.

Mea culpa, I should gave read that one through before posting.

I do stand by the content of the post, that aside, I do feel he gets a rough ride over there, and at times has performed not much worse than Simpson.

You're right in that he's not been much worse than Simmo, but he has plenty of credit in the bank and still has a lot of fans.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: westwaleswasp on February 24, 2019, 08:58:10 PM
Understandably so. Joe is a superb Wasp who stuck with us when he could have f***d off to France and when we were  performing at a poor AP/GP level. He was a super player for us, and stuck with us.

To be honest, I would love to have pulled on a Wasp shirt and been "just" a Craig Hampson or Rory Pitman, so I always feel when those guys get a slagging for being a bit out of their depth. Who wouldn't be? Bottom line is, the third choice  scrum half is the third choice. To expect them to be Robson (the best scrum half in the country with ball in hand) is just too much. I think Hampson has performed at a level I would expect, and had he performed with
"Simpson"on his back would  have been cut a bit more slack. And yes, I understand that Porter may well be a better bet long term, and my knowledge of good 9s is limited.

The label does so much damage, we all gave expectations. Lima the marquee Danny replacement? Poor. Lima the up and coming young ten? Let us have more. Works for everyone really, context is all.

From what I hear Hampson is a nice guy and decent  fellow (doing some coaching with Jimmy iirc) and I would like to think that when he leaves us he does so with thanks for his efforts, which as it stands probably won't set him up for life, unlike a soccer equivalent on 50 grand a week for being third choice at Man Utd.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Dgwasp on February 25, 2019, 08:45:31 AM
I can only just bring myself to post anything after a miserable weekend of rugby.  I do take heart in our second half fight back even though it wasn't quite enough, two marginal decisions for trys both went the way of Sale and gave us far too much to do.  That said the first half performance was so flat we allowed those decisions to make the difference.

For me the biggest problem we had was that the rugby was so static passes were all played and received at a standstill.  Which in that last minute or so, whilst there was little regard for offside, we would receive the ball and immediately get pushed back.  Even balls out wide were passed into the body taking any forward momentum away.  I'm not sure if that is all part of a more conservative playing style or poor implementation of what Dai and his team are asking for.

In terms of players, they all show ability however are not clicking as a unit.  I think we've got a big job on to try and rebuild and develop the club onto better things.  Whilst I'm sure in our financial position the CVC money is handy, it has also meant that the competition has also stepped up markedly.  Those that have simply ploughed that cash into players will soon find it depleted however and I hope that we've got a sufficient long game in plan to come out stronger.

Leicester will be tough next week after their loss at Wuss, although I'd hope a bonus point will be available.  I wonder if TY will play? Might have a back row of

Willis - Nemo - Young
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Rossm on February 25, 2019, 10:08:22 AM
I expect Nathan will be back with us next weekend, Dan, who needs game time (and how), as well. I expect Jones will keep Launch and Brad as, with Lawes out, he can't risk injuries to those two.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Neils on February 25, 2019, 06:38:43 PM
Anyone else think the penalty just before half time didn't go between the posts. On the day I saw Ashley ask for a review and just watched it and it looks wide.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: Tervueren on February 25, 2019, 06:45:19 PM
Looked wide from my seat, but I am down at the halfway line so the judges should have a better view, but then the line judge on my side in the first half did seem to be struggling.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: westwaleswasp on February 25, 2019, 07:34:24 PM
Anyone else think the penalty just before half time didn't go between the posts. On the day I saw Ashley ask for a review and just watched it and it looks wide.

Sale fans I was near thought it wide.
I was directly behind the posts. I posted on DW that there was apoplexy in front of me over it. Looked like it missed by two feet, min. May just have been an optical illusion. The booing at ht was aimed not at the team but the touch officials.
Title: Re: Sale Match Thread
Post by: BG on February 25, 2019, 08:57:50 PM
Sat on the halfway line.. .. almost behind the kick my initial reaction was that it went wide..