Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Sale Game Thread  (Read 18157 times)

AndyL

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2019, 07:03:11 AM »
No that wasnt a wind it was an honest observation. If that is how new posters are being treated around here I cant see much difference between the two sites I will continue to lurk and not bother posting. Bye

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Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2019, 07:32:14 AM »
No that wasnt a wind it was an honest observation. If that is how new posters are being treated around here I cant see much difference between the two sites I will continue to lurk and not bother posting. Bye

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On behalf of the rest of the forum I apologise for that.

Nathan is doing extremely well at Bris, partly I suspect due to the lack of mixed messages coming from club and country, and partly because he has the added security of being in a massive wage regardless of performance. The pressure is off.

Bear in mind though that when he was was a fresh signing he was fairly new to the whole game and performed much like our new 8 is doing now.

Lots of promise, little noise about what else is going on on the field.  I suspect as he gets to know the way we play he'll start being a lot more effective. As it is he is making yards and getting over the gainline. If more people did that we'd be a lot better off.
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Neils

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #92 on: November 11, 2019, 07:59:10 AM »
No that wasnt a wind it was an honest observation. If that is how new posters are being treated around here I cant see much difference between the two sites I will continue to lurk and not bother posting. Bye

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OK perhaps the response was a bit short but my point was if you are a lurker (and many of us have been to start with) you will have read the comments about Hughes over many many months. Add that together with the quite substantial praise for our new No 8 Vailanu who is very like Hughes at the beginning and it did look as if a first time poster was on a stirring mission - as happens all the time on DW. Apologies from me if it was well meant.
Let me tell you something cucumber

AndyL

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2019, 08:04:17 AM »
That's fine. I understand everyone is in guard at present. It's good we have Vilanu but we cant rely on just him to give us some go forward. Or we will end up going backwards or sideways. Like on Fri and conceive penalties. I know the other option is AJ but he seems to fallen out of favour. Which raise the question of who else. Because we tried multiple times to go around the corner and we were knocked back.

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Neils

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #94 on: November 11, 2019, 08:12:12 AM »
Vailanu is progressing as he gets to know those around him but he seems to be impacting on the two flankers. We do have Willis x 2 to get back to full speed plus Alex Reider who is a very good No 8. Also YY to come back which will require a shuffle around of players. Just have to get the right mix quickly.
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Westy68

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2019, 08:28:21 AM »
Agree with neils getting the mix right is very important.

Iím struggling with it and I bet if we asked people on here who to play in the back row we would have at least half a dozen choices.

For me Thomas Youngs has to play at 7, then I really have no idea. I would like to see Willis at 6 and the new guy at 8. See how that goes. I would get Reider on the bench coming on after 55/60 mins. Itís a difficult one and does need looking at.

One thing is for sure it needs to dominate as soon as possible

BG

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2019, 09:26:26 AM »
I haven't seen Hughes play yet this season but from reports from other posters it appears he's found the form he had with us before he was elevated to the England squad, afterwhich, he became a bit one dimensional.

I thought his last season with us was average at best (when he played/available.. which was infrequently). Yes he smashes into people but even if he bumped the first tackler off, he would lose momentum and then be stopped by the 2nd tackler. If he did manage to retain the ball (which wasn't always) it would be slow ball coming back in the ruck or maul.

I've got no problem with him leaving for Bristol and now performing well again. He saw out his contract (I won't go any further about honouring contracts) and Bristol offered more money than Dai was willing/able to pay (again - not going there.. Dai is keeping to a budget - hopefully).

Our new 8 has fitted in brilliantly and seems eager to impress. He did seem to get used a lot in the midfield for carrying purposes so I hope some of the other players help with the load.

In terms of the back row balance. The team plays a lot better with either J Willis or YY in the mix. I hope YY comes back soon and stays injury free. It seems like ages since he last had a good run of games

Westy68

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2019, 09:38:52 AM »
For me Thomas Youngs will help with the ball carrying, as well as being great at the breakdown he is superb at carrying.

The problem is itís hard not to pick Shields or Carr

Brandnewtorugby

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2019, 11:07:46 AM »
Alex, Joe and Ash always go forward, I agree we have missed some of that. My feeling is we are not supporting breaks when they happen though. A week ago Vailanu was on his tod, at the weekend he had just Gopperth who in turn then ended up on his tod. It is the close support of breaks that I feel we have been missing most.

Tervueren

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2019, 11:19:01 AM »
We have go forward but seemingly little idea what to do then.
The teams that are performing well seem to be working on automatic, almost like muscle-memory, in that as a player goes forward they right people are just in place and the rest of the team are in the correct positions. Too often we look like it is a surprise that someone ran forward with the ball, or that it popped out of a ruck  and is on the floor, with the consequence that whilst the team meeting to decide what to do next is going on, the ball has been turned over.
I am sure that is something that will be ironed out with time together and stability, but that could be the black and gold specs I am looking through, as we were failing in the same way last season too.

mike909

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2019, 11:44:16 AM »
I'm trying to balance my view and its hard to be objective about a team I've identified with since before the first RWC!

Pre season is where organisation is hard wired. You do ( I believe) need to make a choice of how a team is going to play (in general and at set piece etc) as that foundation is what you can then play "off"

What seemed to happen too often was that a promising piece of play (from the LI game on) managed to come to an end as there appeared to be a lack of understanding what the options were and what was going to happen.

It does start to look that we relied a little too much off the star dust players that alongside a more than workable pack allowed a less structured game. That said, over the two seasons he was back, it does seem Danny did provide "the" backs plan, and without that, without Jimmy for too long and with perhaps less than optimal organisational/coaching certainty, we've looked what we are, a team of individuals (too often)

Now, I really am not qualified to be certain. We've looked great in patches - we looked like we'd go on to win the LI game, the Sale game and did win the Bath game. We were never in the Glaws game really - but that happens. Still confused as to what the issue is.

I am moving towards change needed and not at player level. We have more than a decent squad.

Tervueren

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2019, 12:26:00 PM »
IMO the squad is fine, how fine is yet to be seen, so either the coaching is not up to it, or it is going to take a few matches for things to bed in. The trouble is that if in a few matches things haven't settled then we are a bit late to start changing the coaching.
With the turnover of players I was expecting a jittery year and a mid-table finish. For now am going to keep hoping for an improvement, and more of one that the teams around us manage.

mike909

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #102 on: November 11, 2019, 12:59:43 PM »
IMO the squad is fine, how fine is yet to be seen, so either the coaching is not up to it, or it is going to take a few matches for things to bed in. The trouble is that if in a few matches things haven't settled then we are a bit late to start changing the coaching.
With the turnover of players I was expecting a jittery year and a mid-table finish. For now am going to keep hoping for an improvement, and more of one that the teams around us manage.

Me too on the squad. Yes, new people, but....really long pre season. Quality players we had last year still in key positions so not so new.

I looked at what happened to Saints when Mallinder went. And why. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42324266

If you are going to make a big change - I'd guess pre xmas......


Tervueren

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #103 on: November 11, 2019, 01:03:02 PM »
Mind you, I cited Saints and an example of change and they promptly lost, so I should perhaps change my name to Jonah and start "bigging" up the SalarySins.

DGP Wasp

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Re: Sale Game Thread
« Reply #104 on: November 11, 2019, 01:14:14 PM »
The turnover of players seems to have become a perennial problem (excuse).  Why are we unable to keep a core of a squad together?  I know we can point to specific reasons as to why certain players have gone that may be outside of the control of Dai, Derek or anyone else, whether that be personal circumstances, England selection, lack of opportunity or just cold hard cash and the need to stay within the cap (Wade, Cips, Hask, Simpson, Hughes, Daly...), coupled with high profile, high quality SH players on short term deals (Le Roux, Beale, Smith, Piutau).  The fact remains that this is a worrying trend, and I think the number one reason that we have become un-competitive in recent seasons.

There are a lot of other issues at play - ongoing uncertainty regarding the training ground; players who relocated failing to settle;  failure to qualify for Champions' Cup; coaching; club finances - that may or may not factor in a player's decision to leave the club.  I'm not saying all of the  above have necessarily contributed to the higher player turnover, but if you're an employee in an organisation where just 2 or 3 of these things give cause for concern then you are most likely more open to approaches from other prospective employers.