Always a Wasp

Author Topic: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled  (Read 33195 times)

13thWarrior

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2020, 01:05:01 PM »
"It is inaccurate to say that this Saracens team is in breach of the cap because a club is only in breach if, at the end of the season, they have spent more than the £7 million limit"

While technically correct I guess, this is such a weasely way of claiming they weren't lying through their teeth when they said: "The club allocates a set budget for player remuneration. This budget falls within the salary cap." and: "We can confirm that we are complying strictly with the salary-cap regulations in the current season." AND: "To the question: “Is the club now in compliance with the salary cap?” The given answer was: “Yes. Under Premier Rugby regulations we are.”"....

So while what Griffiths is saying seems promising, how can we really trust them when, after some reshuffling and moving a couple of players on, they say they are complying with the regulations again?

13thWarrior

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2020, 01:14:49 PM »
Here's a thought: all other prem clubs refuse to sign the Sarries players that they need to offload, causing them to be over the cap this season and incur a further penalty, and therefore relegation.

I don't think this would ever actually happen, and Sarries cold find other places to offload the players, but an interesting thought.

mike909

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2020, 01:19:48 PM »
As an auditor.....I agree - this are weasel words to avoid admitting that they are "set up" beyond the cap

Personally, as a rugby fan wanting a reasonably level playing field, when a team can INCREASE the number of caps in a side by over 400 (as when playing Munster) I cannot have any confidence that the EAs are doing anything but ensuring they can get around the regs.

It would be a good start to:
a) Admit that it was done deliberately
b) Recognise why other clubs are unhappy
c) Commit to openness within new arrangements

and perhaps:
d) Show what they actually did in terms of co-investments, front loading and all the rest alleged


Hymenoptera

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2020, 01:53:31 PM »
So if they are over the cap today, the results to date are null and void. you can't get to round 20 and offload 10 loanees to become 'under cap'. How can a team other than Sorries be relegated morally. A fine next year means nothing.
I don't believe a word that comes from this team, it's been lies upon lies upon lies, statements of lies. They are a joke.
Listen to this weeks The Ruck podcast with our Lol..on this subject for most of it, interesting. https://play.acast.com/s/theruck/8219930c-1879-4b7d-82db-e60cb72c9955

Picked this up elsewhere, from Eddie Jones book. God help us:

“Griffiths was one of those blokes who says, over and over again, that they’re not going to interfere with the rugby side of the club while soon proving that this is exactly what they plan on doing. While I tried to keep an open mind, I was determined that I would never work again for a CEO I didn’t trust. By Christmas (2008) it was clear that the leadership of Edward Griffiths was not for me and I made my decision to leave at the end of the season. But I didn’t last! Once Griffiths had his feet under the desk, he arranged a series of individual meetings with squad members to let 20 players know whether or not they were being kept on or sacked”

“I saw good men looking desolate after their contracts had been terminated. Chris Jack, Glen Jackson and Census Johnston were among the 15 players who were culled. Moses Rauluni, the Fijian half back was another of those about to be axed. His close friend Kameli Ratuvou, who was also from Fiji, was on the list the club wanted to keep. Ratuvou said, ‘I’m not staying unless Raulini stays’. So Raulini got called back in and his contract was reactivated. The players and I retreated to the pub. We were all upset. It was then that I decided to leave immediately. I told Saracens I wanted out in February 2009.”
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 02:18:09 PM by Hymenoptera »

Neils

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2020, 02:30:25 PM »
Listen to the blog above - some things said are mindboggling!

matelot22

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2020, 03:01:27 PM »
My God, just made the mistake of looking at their SN site, seething again now. Are there any decent and honest Sarries fans about?

Edited to add, one of them even has the gall to suggest that the cap manager should be sacked for incompetence because he didn't catch them earlier........
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 03:11:52 PM by matelot22 »

BrackenandMacken

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 04:53:27 PM »
Regarding The Ruck podcast, some fantastic points raised by Mark Evans with regards to how a cap should operate but ultimately that is absolutely brutal regarding Saracens. Both Mark and LOL confirmed that the people who have read the report confirm Saracens didn't break the cap, they smashed it!

You can't help but think unless there is a strong head honcho appointed to police the Salary Cap we won't have a fair league whilst Saracens are in it.

Neils

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2020, 04:58:35 PM »
Regarding The Ruck podcast, some fantastic points raised by Mark Evans with regards to how a cap should operate but ultimately that is absolutely brutal regarding Saracens. Both Mark and LOL confirmed that the people who have read the report confirm Saracens didn't break the cap, they smashed it!

You can't help but think unless there is a strong head honcho appointed to police the Salary Cap we won't have a fair league whilst Saracens are in it.

Agree - I must admit being somewhat aghast at some of the comments. Lol frightened to read the report sticks plus Wasps offered Daly the maximum they could within the cap and being easily trumped by EAs plus reference to his wife wanting the move. Interesting that the Aussie system has a five strong team of Cap enforcers.

BG

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 05:03:58 PM »
Is Griffiths implying they are going to do something now mid-season or for next season?

If its now, players' solicitors will be rubbing their greedy little hands. Contracts will have to be paid off and where do the players go? All EPL clubs will presumably be up to the cap limit.

If its at the end of this season then it will also mean they can only cut players whose contracts are up for renewal.

Either way, it sort of implies they know they are still over.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 05:06:31 PM by BG »

wasps

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2020, 05:10:58 PM »

The big question is still "how much over the cap would they be at the end of this season of everything stays the same"?

If it's less than £1m, we'll see a few squad players cut, and a few of the faithful taking a supposed pay cut...
Ultimately it'll look and feel like exactly the same Saracens squad


If it's £1-£2 million, then there will probably be 1 or 2 significant names in addition to the above that get cut


If it's over £2 million (i.e. 25%+) then you can bet it's been the same for the last few years as well which shows the complete disregard they've had for fair competition




And in reference to the above point, if the current salary cap manager isn't shown the door, then that's almost as big a travesty because he must be incompetent.

welsh wasp

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 05:32:05 PM »
Let's imagine the worst case scenario.
Saracens keep on winning; Wasps keep on losing and end the season at the bottom of the league. Should we give notice now that if that happens, we intend to sue whoever is responsible for breaking the salary cap rules. And who is it - PRL for not relegating Saracens or Saracens for breaking the Laws of Rugby? (capitals used deliberately).
That's probably why the talk of ring-fencing is growing with London Irish welcomed back into the now-closed PRL club.

Neils

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2020, 05:43:14 PM »
I've said it before they can't let it get to a legal case because both this report and the last transgression (total 5 years) will then have to be made public then all hell will break loose. The Pod above makes it clear that there is far far more in the hidden report that the authorities do not want to be made public.

Lwasp

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2020, 05:50:35 PM »
Let's imagine the worst case scenario.
Saracens keep on winning; Wasps keep on losing and end the season at the bottom of the league. Should we give notice now that if that happens, we intend to sue whoever is responsible for breaking the salary cap rules. And who is it - PRL for not relegating Saracens or Saracens for breaking the Laws of Rugby? (capitals used deliberately).
That's probably why the talk of ring-fencing is growing with London Irish welcomed back into the now-closed PRL club.

Saracens could not be relegated. The rules, as agreed by all signatories, stipulated the maximum penalty and that is what the EAs were hit with. We can argue that the penalties should have been different, but I guess when they drew them up they didn't think this would happen or that a 35 point deduction wouldn't be severe enough to punish the guilty.

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2020, 06:15:13 PM »
Depending on the size of the overspend there will come a point in the season where they are over regardless of cutting players.  At that point perhaps we can hit them with another 35 point deduction and fine.
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jamestaylor002

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Re: EAs BBC - Squad May Be Dismantled
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2020, 06:25:44 PM »
So I have been reading my Sky Sports app on my phone and Saracens are supposedly focusing on players near the end of their careers and those who are near the end of their contract.

Those near the end of their careers include Brad Barritt, Richard Wigglesworth, Alex Goode and a couple others.