Glaws CE insists Saracens should feel 'full force of points deduction'

[mike909]

And if it's subsidised rent, then HMRC would definitely be interested.

Yep....

[Marlow Nick]

It's not subsidised rent - the fact that it's property is irrelevant it's investing. If Nigel Wray's experience and contacts were in software development or sheep farming he could do the same there. I believe there are also some questionable examples around coffee shops, breweries etc. The loophole they appear to be trying to exploit is by saying this is a joint investment between two partners (a player and one of Nigel's friends) who both contribute to an investment opportunity although not necessarily equally and not necessarily in hard cash. So maybe Nigels' friend invests hard cash and the player invests their time and deep expertise in sheep farming / software development / real-estate. It's an investment and not guaranteed profit so not income and not taxable … until several years later when Nigel's friend decides to sell their shares for £1 and leaves the (now ex-player) with 100% of the assets which they can then sell as taxable capital gains. I'm sure Nigel's clever lawyers have made sure it's not of interest to the taxman (until profits are taken years later) and I have no doubt that he can argue this is a genuine loophole. I also believe this is 100% against the spirit of the salary cap agreement that explicitly states it's about keeping overall costs manageable and keeping a roughly level playing field. But what would Nigel care about the spirit of an agreement when there is an opportunity to exploit a loophole?

[wasps]

What bothers me most is that it wouldn't surprise me if this is the same loophole he used last time and was told not to do so again..... But he blatantly doesn't care

[mike909]

I also believe this is 100% against the spirit of the salary cap agreement that explicitly states it's about keeping overall costs manageable and keeping a roughly level playing field. But what would Nigel care about the spirit of an agreement when there is an opportunity to exploit a loophole?

This 100% and if required the legals I posted above need updating

[BG]

Are we coming to the conclusion that the salary cap is pretty much unenforceable.

For example.. lets say I was a life long Wasps supporter and that I had made it big time... BG Enterprises..

I could offer to sponsor Wasps for £5m per year .. the money would then go to Wasps to do whatever they they wanted.. if a portion of that money was used to pay players then that would come out of Wasps bank account and be part of the Salary Cap. But what if I offered to pay £1 to Wasps but offered to cover (indirectly) 10 players living expenses each year... that wouldn't go through Wasps bank account.. but the players would be receiving money.. all legal and above board.. and outside of the salary cap.

This appears to be what Nigel Wray is doing via friends and business partners.

PRL has no jurisdiction to see what money enters players' bank accounts.. they can only ask to see what money leave's Sarries bank account.

Most players in the premiership will have Ltd companies that they manage their finances through.

This is Elliot Daly's

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08821430/filing-history

What will be interesting is to compare the figures on this now.. to next year

[Tervueren]

Clubs do have provide:
"the name of any Third Parties or Connected Parties that have provided payments or benefits in kind to Players of that Club or to Connected Parties of those Players or a statement that the Club is not aware of any such payments or benefits; "

So would either have to be unaware or lie about it

[mike909]

Clubs do have provide:
"the name of any Third Parties or Connected Parties that have provided payments or benefits in kind to Players of that Club or to Connected Parties of those Players or a statement that the Club is not aware of any such payments or benefits; "

So would either have to be unaware or lie about it

This. Its very difficult to get away with it unless you are suffering from memory loss...

[Tervueren]

There is also a whole raft of things that might it more or less likely for something to be considered as salary. E.G. "if the Connected Party/Third Party has entered into similar arrangements
with any other Player(s) from the Player’s Club, it will be more likely to be considered Salary;"

I presume though that there has to be some tangible transfer of value somewhere.

[Marlow Nick]

If you have spare cash you can also ask a player to give a speech at your event and pay him generously for his time. As long as he doesn't wear team kit when speaking this counts as non-rugby work and therefore outside the cap. It's irrelevant that you got the player's phone number from your drinking buddy who happens to own the club.

[Rossm]

An article in today's Mail: "Premiership club bosses demand verdict on Saracens salary cap probe before start of new season".

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7315941/Premiership-club-bosses-demand-verdict-Saracens-salary-cap-probe-start-new-season.html

[HDAWG]

I mean fair response from competing clubs.

Either Saracens have created a set up for other clubs to afford players they'd want or they'll get punished. But because Saracens are the best English team I reckon the former will happen rather than the latter.

If Wasps are now able to afford more players like Launchbury (i.e. another Launchbury) and compete with Sarries is it a bad thing?

[RBB]

EJ and Nige, enjoying The Ashes...caption as you see fit?

https://i.redd.it/f9swsjwp59e31.jpg

[Marlow Nick]

If Wasps are now able to afford more players like Launchbury (i.e. another Launchbury) and compete with Sarries is it a bad thing?

Yes it is a bad thing. Most clubs can't afford to spend more. The whole idea of the cap was to avoid a two tier League of rich Vs less rich. The last time Sarries cheated (allegedly) the fudged outcome was an increase in the cap to a level that only half the clubs could afford. If the cap is increased again or worse still if it becomes legitimate to do these unlimited side deals then the floodgates will open, Sarries will spend even more, and we will have a 3 tier league

[W2APS]

If you can invest in players as Sarries have been then you may as well get rid of the Marquee players slots. Just pay them bugger all and invest a million into their 'business'.

Sent from my TA-1012 using Tapatalk

[BG]

The DM (Chris Foy) aren't letting go of this issue

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7324197/Top-clubs-fear-Saracens-salary-controversy-swept-carpet-Premiership-Rugby.html

I can't understand what additional investigating needs to take place as its in black and white at Companies House.

The difficulty is discerning whether these joint ventures constitue extra income (now or delayed) to the players involved and that is somehow linked to the club.

I would have thought the summer would have been the best time to make an announcement either way and seeing as nothing has been said, it looks like it will be simply brushed under the carpet, or a decision and punishment will be made behind closed doors.

I don't think the other PRL clubs are going to accept that this time though