CVC Good or Bad

[Neils]

Article in TRP and in Welsh Rugby Press that CVC likely to take a similar percentage of Pro 14. This will result in two years a British League split into two conferences. This will apparently put in doubt the Heineken Cup. Apparently the French owners don't like either European competition.

Must admit I don't like this one bit. Wonder what recompense the Italians and Saffers in Pro14 will be after.

[BG]

Is this just a rumour that TRP are pushing (have CVC even bought a share of Pro 14??)

Without knowing all the details its hard to give an informed opinion .. but my uninformed opinion is not to like it.

I wonder if this is idea stems from a CVC or celtic point of view

[Neils]

It states it comes from a club owner plus it is well known that CVC have offered to buy into the Pro14 with a similar percentage to the premiership.  Also seems to be coming out of Wales suggests it has legs.

[wasps]

Presumably the Welsh regions need money and if CVC are investing they'll be looking at ways to increase the revenue of Welsh rugby.

A combined league seems like it almost certainly achieves that goal for the regions.


However, CVC also have to increase revenue of the English game, and I feel like this would be a short term solution to that.

It would feel new and different. They'll be able to organise some good sponsorship for 2-3 years, maybe a little longer.
Suddenly, their goals are met.


But what after that??

There's already a feeling that it's difficult to attract new audiences to rugby, so while additional sponsorship and TV coverage may make a difference for a couple of years, if it tails off after the novelty wears off, then we're all left with a league that no one really wants, and no long term financial benefit to it

[Shugs]

From Wasps point of view it came along at the right time for the short term need to commit to building the new training facility and possibly service some debt. Not sure what effect they'll have on the game long term but it will give us a bit of breathing space financially when we really need it.

[BG]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-regions-playing-new-16621172

Would attendances at EPL clubs increase that much? The inclusion of the Irish provences is up in the air, so if they didn't sign up it would mean 4 welsh clubs and 2 scottish and possibly 12 - 14 (who knows what will be decided with the promotion/relegation saga) English clubs, so similar to the Anglo-Welsh competition a lot of the games will be between 2 EPL clubs.

My perception this season just gone is that there are less travelling supporters for the cub games so the Welsh regions hoping for thousands of travelling english fans might be a little misguided.

Would BT or Sky pay that much more for having the Welsh and Scottish teams in the competition where the tv market isn't as large as the English tv market

[Heathen]

I cannot see a benefit for the English clubs. I do not like the conference concept. One could be significantly weaker than the other. I do not see any benefit for Wasps in terms of revenues, unless CVC are planning to offer shedloads more cash to the clubs, on top of what they have already paid. How will the RFU view the situation?

[wasps]

With some extra thought, would the Welsh regions really see an improvement in attendances?

Surely anyone who is Welsh either has an affiliation with a rugby club, or has no interest in the sport anyway.
I can't see that playing against Leicester, Wasps or Saracens is going to suddenly double attendance figures

[baldpaul101]

This is very much like the other discussions we've had on here about CVC.
The sums don't seem to add up to me, but CVC are no mugs, they must have a model that they think is going to return a profit on the investment they have shelled out. The worry for Rugby fans should be that unless there's likely to be a 30% plus increase in revenue somehow (and I haven't seen anyone explain where that's going to come from) then someone is going to be worse off. That won't be CVC, I'm reasonably sure of that!

[BG]

If CVC's involvement in F1 is anything to go by, they won't actually care about stadium (circuit) attendance figures (or indeed the financial status of the clubs themselves - how many F1 teams went out of business or were taken over during CVC's tenureship?? A lot!)

They created deals with new circuits in far flung places backed by either govt or oil money where grand prix took place in front of mainly empty stands.

CVC's plan (if this story is true and not just the Welsh regions trying to muscle in on the EPL) will be to negotiate a better combined TV deal, which is what they did in F1.

They may be thinking that a league made up of English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish (the latter in itself is so complicated) will be of greater commercial interest to TV companies around the world.

I just don't see that. I think CVC have over-estimated the appeal of UK + Irish provences rugby (bundled into a league format). Generally, the TV audience is UK based apart from a few ex-pats scattered around the world using VPN's to watch matches.The addition of Celtic tv viewers won't be a reason for a TV company to double the offer of their contract

The appeal of the european cup (which this almost replaces) is that some fixtures only occur once every 5 or 10 yrs.. if it happens twice a season then club supporters and tv viewers will become apathetic especially if the governing unions of Wales and Ireland start withholding their best players.

With the prospect of 2 conferences you also have the prospect of historic English fixtures disappearing from the calendar.

Unless CVC throw a wedge of money at the EPL clubs, I can't see any benefit to them to sign up to this proposal.

[Neils]

It all depends on the conditions pertaining to the PRL deal with CVC.  It was said at the time that CVC were very close to Sky and any future tv deal would certainly involve them. If this league becomes fact then the next tv deal could be used by Sky to scupper BT rugby involvement in both domestic and a dying ERC tournament. The bid would be higher than existing to get exclusivity and please CVC.  CVC  could then show that they have at one stroke increased domestic TV revenues. They then sell the product worldwide bringing in more dosh. They are not interested in crowds - that is the clubs domain. I can see us all being told to sit in the stand facing the tv cameras as crowds diminish - rather like Edinburgh playing at Murrayfield.

[King Prawn Phuna]

All summed up very nicely by Shedweb's resident poet......thought I'd share it here

Now that the nights are drawing in,
The fantasist insurgency can begin.
The Celts are eyeing up their chance
To relieve us of our trips to France
And make our well run clubs compete
Against Union backed provinces, replete
With international stars, who rarely play,
Until the money breaks out in April and May.
Clashes that should be rare and sweet
Would be served up weekly, not as a treat.
The hotchpotch would be a ring fenced plum.
From where would promoted franchises come?
By Christmas dead rubbers would abound,
With nothing to play for and the sound
Of half empty stadia, on a TV feed
Showing the world tumbleweed.

Alfred Lord Tension (2019) @ALTension