Manu Tuilagi.... Discuss

[wasps]

I think he has rare athletic and physical abilities above and beyond most / all English centres.

I'm the same way that Billy Vunipola can be a single handed threat from standstill, Manu demands attention from the opposition defence.

England are a power based team with a large set of forwards, however, we can be easily out muscled in the backs. Manu can help in that regard as well as being a battering ram.


However, is he a 12 or 13?
Do we want a power option at 13, or at 12?
Does his passing / vision hinder a team of he plays at 12?


Does Ford, Farrell, Manu create enough to break down the opposition

Is Farrell, Manu, JJ a realistic option?


Will Manu stay fit, and if he doesn't, how much does it disrupt us to completely change the game plan for whoever plays instead?

[matelot22]

I appreciate all of the qualities that you list that Manu possesses, but you hit the nail on the head with "Can he stay fit?" Seeing as that looks like a no, I prefer Ford, Farrell, Joseph. When Manu is fit use him as a battering ram running at tired defences from the bench. Coming on for the last quarter makes it less critical whether he plays 12 or 13, but I prefer him at 12 personally.

[Raggs]

Manu's major fitness issue was his groin, which seems to have resolved itself. Other than that, he doesn't seem any better/worse than most others.

His hands limit us distributing, but no more than Farrell at 12 limits us in running.

I've developed quite a liking for Francis at 12, has the hands to keep the expansive moves flowing, and picks good attacking lines, isn't afraid of a carry.

[King Prawn Phuna]

Without going over old ground....DC with Manu outside him would be a real game changer and a plan B off the bench that England are lacking.

[Shugs]

Personally I've always thought Tuilagi was a bit of a myth. Couple that with his fitness issues and I'd have had him nowhere near the RWC squad. At 12 I'd prefer Farrell or Francis and at 13 I'd rather have Slade or Joseph. I agree with what's said above that if you do take him it's probably as an impact player off the bench - for me that's a waste of a space in the squad.

[InBetweenWasp]

I prefer a 13 that’s more of scalpel than a battering ram.  Someone who can exploit a gap with pace and vision, or who can intelligently put the Back 3 into space.

Based on that, i’d have Manu at 12 where a power game works better (for me).  That being said, I don’t think that Farrell (at 10) and Manu (at 12) is compatible, even if a similar setup works for Saracens with Faz/Barritt.

For Manu to work at 12, you need someone with a little more vision and ability to play what he sees, for England that’s Ford and of course there’s Cips who is the obvious candidate with his ability to manipulate defences and put carriers through at devastating angles.

[Raggs]

Excepting of course that cips great success in the past several seasons has all happened with another play maker at 12.

[Old Geezer]

I have never been a Francis fan but I have to admit I have been more impressed with him in the last two games so i am going to keep an open mind on him now.  If he sustains his performances he is a real advantage as a 12 or 13 although I prefer him at 12.

[Chunky24]

I prefer a 13 that’s more of scalpel than a battering ram.  Someone who can exploit a gap with pace and vision, or who can intelligently put the Back 3 into space.

Based on that, i’d have Manu at 12 where a power game works better (for me).  That being said, I don’t think that Farrell (at 10) and Manu (at 12) is compatible, even if a similar setup works for Saracens with Faz/Barritt.

For Manu to work at 12, you need someone with a little more vision and ability to play what he sees, for England that’s Ford and of course there’s Cips who is the obvious candidate with his ability to manipulate defences and put carriers through at devastating angles.

Think it works for Saracens because of who they have at 13 (Lozowksi) and 15 (Goode) who can jump in and be the first or even second receiver to play what they see, Daly or Watson or Joseph don't possess the same ability although Slade can from 13.

[Hymenoptera]

At 12 his power would be circumvented by the oppo back row, at 13 gets that extra space with players he can ragdoll.

So its a choice for me, lose the power 13 or not. I'd have no issue's with him putting a season at 12, i think he'd be good.

[JonnyD]

Harsh on Slade really, he’s had an excellent season with England at 13 and I believe it’s his shirt at the moment with Farrell at 10 and probably manu at 12 but who knows with Eddie.
We’ll probably keep the ford Farrell axis even though we all know it doesn’t work, Joseph looked like he’d been jettisoned but is back, he liked playing teo as a carrier at 12 but now is playing Farrell or Francis. Manu will come straight back in at 13 I’m sure in big games and Daly despite being one of the best 13s of the last 4/5 years is at FB.
I Still have no idea on our best line up or game plan in Eddie’s mind when it comes to the backs

[mike909]

Not sure that's totally fair - the Ford Farrell axis worked all the way through the record run and all the way to the backrow being unable to secure ball after the 2017 6Ns - after the change in the regs - which was why England lost to France, Scotland and Ireland in 2018 6Ns

Jones then panicked - it seems to me - hence the change of personnel in the SA backrow with Wilson and Curry, but it turned into games where we suddenly looked like the best first quarter team in world rugby - only for the team to show it only have one way of playing....and if that wasn't enough..too bad.

Jones was saved by Cips winning a game - panicked again - a year out from the RWC and went back to Farrell at 10, dropped Care, carried on the Daly "experiment" and Manu starting with Slade worked in the last 6Ns until Cardiff and were made (post looking great) to look like the backs hadn't met in the second half vs Scotland who from 31 down scored 6 tries before the last minute draw score.

So I'd 100% agree - Jones hasn't made it clear what his first choice backline looks like - or how they might play and that's a concern weeks out from the RWC, especially without - it seems - a strategy for who is 12 and how they ought to play.

[Heathen]

I really beieve that Eddie wants Manu, Billy and Mako on the pitch together. He wants to create carnage amongst the opposition.

[Raggs]

Rugby becomes a much easier game when you have 3+ world class carriers. A world class carrier is also someone with good hands though, so I'd not quite put Manu there, but he's in a destructive class all of his own in many ways.

Defence simply struggles when there's so much power, doesn't matter how clever it is, and attack can also be relatively simple, which helps too.

[westwaleswasp]

I don't care how many Manu like players you have in the backs. Wales for one will not be beaten by selecting a bunch of them up here, and NZ and the Boks won't from down there. Not entirely sure Ireland, Australia and France will either.  Which is not to say we should not have Manu in our team or squad, but to say that if our plan is to smash down doors with Mako/Billy/Manu/Joe C and employ destructive tackling back rows, then I don't think it will work. I don't think Manu is a great distributor, nor does he have super pace, but he is the embodiment of dynamic.

I would like to see England with Manu to come on in the last twenty, but ultimately with us unsure at 10/12/13 I don't think it will matter too much- I expect a limited game plan that will bury someone deep before coming undone.

I think England have wasted these last couple of years and Eddie will be throwing dice - which would have not been necessary with better planning in 2017/18.- it might work- I mean if the Boks in '07 can win it in what was almost a six month project, I don't see why we can't with a team who are at least pretty settled in the tight and some other positions, even with a few gambles.....