Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Salary cap  (Read 14160 times)

Elmo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Salary cap
« on: September 03, 2019, 04:47:56 PM »
Just been sent this link by a tigers fan...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7420353/Saracens-salary-cap-storm-transferred-independent-panel-Premiership-Rugby-escalate-case.html

There's also an article in the times about the potential outcomes of the investigation. I will see if I can get it on here.

NellyWellyWaspy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4041
  • Getting older a couple of minutes every day
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 04:54:14 PM »
Just been sent this link by a tigers fan...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7420353/Saracens-salary-cap-storm-transferred-independent-panel-Premiership-Rugby-escalate-case.html

There's also an article in the times about the potential outcomes of the investigation. I will see if I can get it on here.

Make your own phrase:

Road
Kick
The
Further
Can
Down
The

Neils

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14761
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2019, 05:05:01 PM »
Just been sent this link by a tigers fan...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7420353/Saracens-salary-cap-storm-transferred-independent-panel-Premiership-Rugby-escalate-case.html

There's also an article in the times about the potential outcomes of the investigation. I will see if I can get it on here.

If you (or somebody) can extract the Times article from behind the paywall we would be grateful.
Let me tell you something cucumber

Vespula Vulgaris

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2992
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 05:46:13 PM »
Looks like Elliot might have moved for a pay cut after all... :D
Please consider supporting the forum in 2022! Donate Here

Heathen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3094
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 11:11:15 PM »
Herewith the Times Article :

If Saracens escape punishment, it will kill the salary cap

Owen Slot, Chief Rugby Correspondent

Wales dropped from first to fourth in the world rankings at the weekend. A fortnight after being dismantled by England, Ireland have hopped up to second. Yet while it has become fashionable these past few weeks to poke fun at the randomness of the rankings, one of the best sides in the world doesn’t get a ranking and is not going to the World Cup. This is Saracens.

Just imagine how far Saracens could go in Japan. They have five of the England pack; seven of the starting XV. In a week, by which time all the World Cup squads will have been announced, they will probably have another six going with other nations. Will Skelton, the Australian, would be a seventh if he had not found his Saracens deal preferable. Elliot Daly is the starting full back for England but may only be third-choice No 15 for Saracens.

If we agree that they could compete at world level, we could probably agree that Saracens are phenomenally strong favourites to win the Gallagher Premiership again this season.
If/when they do they will have won five Premiership titles out of the past six.

You doubt that when CVC, the private equity firm, bought its 27 per cent share of the Premiership this year, it wanted to buy a monopoly. You would presume that it wanted a competition full of intrigue and knife-edge tension. The value of the competition is hardly going to rise if we already know who will be champions.

On to the salary-cap investigation, then. If Exeter Chiefs, Wasps et al cannot break Saracens, will it be this that finally does it?

You will recall that at the end of last season, Saracens were placed under “review”. Several players’ businesses were revealed in the media, particularly Faz Investments Ltd, a company run by Owen Farrell, Wiggy9 Ltd (Richard Wigglesworth’s) and VunProp Ltd (the Vunipola brothers’) all of which were launched with Nigel Wray, the Saracens owner, as a financial partner.

This demanded an answer to the question: is this not a smart way around the salary-cap rules? A payment in kind? Wray quickly issued a substantial, unyielding statement in which he sought not to deny these investments — quite the opposite, he said that they were within the salary-cap rules and that he was proud to be helping his players to become businessmen and invest in their futures in this way.

That is where we left the stand-off. Andrew Rogers, the Premiership salary cap manager, was left investigating it. The pressure is growing on him now because, five months on, the other clubs are chomping at the bit. The Premiership does not start until mid-October, but the Premiership Rugby Cup begins in three weeks.

Some clubs would love to see Saracens brought to their knees with a guilty verdict accompanied by a points deduction and severe reputational damage. Yet while none of them seems to be in a particularly forgiving mood, even if you attempt to take the emotion out, what they all need, before the season’s start, is clarity. Whatever the conclusion, it is hard to see how it cannot damage Saracens.

There are three most likely outcomes.

One: despite a well-resourced legal battle, Wray fails to show that his co-investments are not a benefit in kind that break the cap. Saracens are found to be in breach of the rules. The maximum penalty is a 35-point deduction.

Of longer lasting significance, then, is: what would happen to the squad? Saracens would have to re-budget fast to come down under the cap. There could be a reduction in player wages, a fire sale of players or Wray would have to sell his shareholding in his players’ companies. Maybe a bit of all three.

Two: Wray wins the legal argument and Saracens are found to be not in breach. At that point, suddenly, the salary cap has been detonated. It currently stands at £7 million. If every other club is informed that, legally, they can go into business with their players, like Wray, then the game has been immediately transformed. The ramifications are vast.

At that point, each club would have to decide whether or not they wanted to compete at this level. Money would rule. Wage inflation would rage. The southern-hemisphere nations have few defences to stop their players from being lured by the lucre of the north; they would now find it even harder to cope.

Three: Wray wins the legal argument and Saracens are found not to be in breach, but the reaction of the other clubs is to close the legal loophole. Wray could fight it and we would get into a further legal dispute. However, at some point, the votes of the other 12 clubs would beat the Saracens one. At what stage could those clubs just refuse to play against them?

The inside information is that, with the new season approaching, this is all soon to come to a head. Even if Saracens win this fight, though, it is hard to see how they do not lose.


Rossm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7452
  • Hey, Slow Down.
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2019, 12:23:48 AM »
Thanks for posting, Heathen. Chickens coming home to roost?
SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

Neils

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14761
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 07:59:42 AM »
Thanks for posting - interesting read.
Let me tell you something cucumber

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2019, 08:24:14 AM »
Thanks for posting.

As the article notes and I've said before - any club that can afford to have up to 8 or so Lions starters is one that either has got these players to accept lower wages than available elsewhere - or its one that has carried out some "creative" arrangements to make Sarries "so attractive"

I hope this is sorted otherwise - the game will have serious problems if one team is allowed to be so much stronger than the others, on the basis that's outlined in the article.

matelot22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1359
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2019, 10:40:51 AM »
I'll have to have a look at the Sarries' board later, I'll wager they're still in denial.

Tervueren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2462
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2019, 11:42:33 AM »
Thanks for posting, Heathen. Chickens coming home to roost?

Is that a home jointly owned with Mr Wray?

westwaleswasp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2015
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2019, 06:14:25 PM »
Thanks for posting. I finally worked out how to applaud on mobile..
Interesting times ahead...

Shugs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4422
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2019, 08:26:24 PM »
Be interesting to see what happens here. You only have to look at the Sarries squad to see there is something amiss.

RBB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • It’s like trying to tackle a snooker table!
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2019, 08:03:30 AM »
The investigation has been passed to https://www.sportresolutions.co.uk/ Sport Resolutions.

What is interesting is the commentary from the article below, the story has been syndicated many times since the 2nd of this month.

'Under the salary cap regulations, matters only get referred to the specialist disputes body Sport Resolutions when there is deemed to be a case to answer, including where there is a breach of over £350,000 or a club is guilty of failing to cooperate.'

https://www.ruck.co.uk/update-investigation-into-saracens-salary-cap-takes-new-turn/

So it will be interesting to see what has been uncovered and the implications for the EAs, north of >£350k results in a points deduction, see below, with an escalator applied after that.

A breach of between £350k and £400k incurs a five-league-points penalty deduction, a breach between £400k and £450k a 10-league-points deduction and so on in those increments up to a 35-league-points deduction for exceeding the cap by over £650k. This league point penalties are in addition to fines, which are again taxed at £3 for every £1 of overspend. Should a club be found to have broken the salary cap by an amount of £650k or more, they would be faced with a 35-league-points deduction and a fine of at least £1.95m.
It was fine when I left it.....

BG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1559
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2019, 08:03:47 AM »
Sarries supporters will say that a lot of their squad is homegrown, which is true, but you have to ask the question as to how they can attract that talent in the first place and how are they able to keep that talent. Sarries were one of the clubs pinged for salary cap infringments before at the time when a lot of their young talent arrived on the scene.

A lot of clubs nuture young talent but often when that talent matures (becomes an international) they move clubs to earn more money.

Hughes was a relatively unknown player and worked his way up to being an international. Bristol offered more money than he was earning and Dai was very honest in saying that he couldn't compete with the amount Bristol were offering and stay within the salary cap.

Ford went from tiggers to Bath and back again. I'm damn sure he didn't take a pay cut.

Sarries can almost field an international match day squad and none of the players seem to want to leave to increase their pay packet.

Winning cups and medals is important but I'm sure a massive driving force behind a players decision making is money. I'd respect Daley a lot more if he was just honest and admitted that Sarries had offered him a better package.

I know the sister of Peter Tom's (tiggers long time benefactor) wife and whenever she flew to his tax haven home there would always be Leicester players there having free holidays etc.

The figures (not that we know what they are as Sarries an PRL won't come clean) don't add up.

I don't think the rest of the PRL clubs will let this go as they did the previous time

The worrying aspect is that most clubs simply can't compete but if PRL don't do something then the gloves will come off.

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Salary cap
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2019, 12:42:31 PM »
Good post BG

Especially this:

Quote
Sarries can almost field an international match day squad and none of the players seem to want to leave to increase their pay packet.

Winning cups and medals is important but I'm sure a massive driving force behind a players decision making is money. I'd respect Daley a lot more if he was just honest and admitted that Sarries had offered him a better package.

With Daly, Vuni x 2, OF, Maro and Kruis, Williams, George, that's 8 Lions starters plus Maitland and Loz and I'm sure Brad isn't playing for buttons...and Skelton and Goode and Rhodes, Berger and Wray ffs....and the SH's etc etc