Loss to Irish.

[Beasties]

Just watched the match and it's pretty depressing stuff if you take the unbelievable Willis out of the equation. Same old Wasps hopelessness at mauls, both attacking and defending. Why can we never seem to improve at mauls? We've been terrible at them for years. At the risk of singling individuals out, Kibirige was good and bad, same for Watson. Bassett's best days are prob behind him (and I was a big fan) and I still haven't seen a single moment from Sopoanga that's made me think yup, we've got a serious talent there.

Early days but I fear it's gonna be a tough old season for Wasps fans. Soz for the negativity and all that but it was Irish at home after all.

[BG]

Sadly I agree with you Beasties. Willis on his own was a one man ruck machine. If he or YY isn't on the pitch then we're going to find ourselves under a lot of pressure.

That was probably (injuries aside) our best matchday squad and yet we lost at home to a newly promoted team who have a lot of talent still to arrive.

I haven't seen any other games so can't comment on whether the other teams have struggled in the first game.

[King Prawn Phuna]

I was at Sale for the Gloucester game and yes we were dire in the first half very ring rusty.  Almost frightened to get stuck in a bit like pre-season so called 'full contact'.  Turned around in the second half

Watched the Wasps highlights last night and it looked a better game than folks returning from the game had suggested.  You were definitely reffed against by JP, who I used to rate, but is now so full of his own importance he is the only decision maker on the park (he ran the the touch at Sale and was continuously interfering with Andrew Jackson's decisions but ignoring his own job of watching the offside line!)

Worst of all for me was the forward pass for the Irish last try which made all of the difference ateotd he didn't even go to review it.

At 3.30 on the clip below.


Looking forward to some of you making it to Kingsholm....I think your tactics will have to involve coming out of the blocks fast and try to knock us out dead in the first half...like last year but better.



https://youtu.be/WQ9MvjxBRAE?t=208

[Rossm]

How's Danny's elbow? Of course we are all concerned for him

[BG]

Worst of all for me was the forward pass for the Irish last try which made all of the difference ateotd he didn't even go to review it.

https://youtu.be/WQ9MvjxBRAE?t=208

Back to the old debate of what constitues a forward pass. Just because a ball travels forward doesn't mean its a forward pass.. (let see who bites).

[King Prawn Phuna]

Worst of all for me was the forward pass for the Irish last try which made all of the difference ateotd he didn't even go to review it.

https://youtu.be/WQ9MvjxBRAE?t=208

Back to the old debate of what constitues a forward pass. Just because a ball travels forward doesn't mean its a forward pass.. (let see who bites).

I agree, but not to even have a review on a such an important try?   I do think Wasps are missing a real on field leader, someone who can drag the team, the fans and officials over the line in a close game.  No names of those i've loathed respected in the past 

[Mellie]

I watched recordings of the full match back to back after both RWC matches. What struck me immediately was the abysmal standard of refereeing by JP compared to RWC.

It was the tackle and breakdown where this was most obvious. He was so slow calling tackle when a players knee went to ground and he allowed the breakdown to be a mess by not pinging players hanging on or interfering when not entitled to, which prevented quick or clean ball.

Jack Willis aside, Wasps were terrible at dealing with this. We lacked numbers to secure the ball when we had it. Our goal line attack also lacked penetration because we had 1 or 2 players going on their own with ineffective support. Once stopped they were easier to turn over.

Our defensive line speed was quite good and the touch judge called offside a few times early on when our timing may not have been spot on. As the game progressed this was policed less and Irish benefited.

JP should have referred to TMO for the deliberate knock on. On TV replay was obviously pen try and yellow card. Similarly the last Irish try may have been a forward pass but no review.

Saying all that, Watson butchered a try and Dobbie wasn't sharp at the breakdown despite his try.

The last Irish try summed it up. We had the ball and lost it at a breakdown. Then couldn't get in position to defend properly. Kibirige was on the left wing in that attack and the right wing was covered by a forward, Ogre I think. As the ball moved across the field Basset or Watson failed to fill in. Ogre then attacked the inside man leaving the wing exposed. Unfortunately, De Jongh should have looped him to provide more pace on the outside but stayed where he was leaving a run in for Irish. Completely preventable.

Basic conclusion is Irish were more savvy, Wasps decision making was poor and JP should be pensioned off as he is useless at this level.

[westwaleswasp]

Pretty accurate conclusion on all three counts.
What can be done? It is still early doors.
Suggestions?

[Hymenoptera]

The opposite of whats being done currently.

[backdoc]

Best summary Mellie. Well said.

[welsh wasp]

I think I watched a different game on TV!!
Watson: Has he played FB for us before? Did a decent job other than failing to pass for a certain try.
Kibirige: Took his 2 tries very well and almost a third. Wasn’t the only defender missing when Irish scored their long-range try.
Lima: I guess he will never please those who STILL lament for Cipriani. I thought he had a decent game. We can almost count on 100% successful kicks.
Robson: Not bad. Still needs to get back to playing regularly.
Front row: Has anyone criticised them:
Gaskell: How long has he been out? Usually a guaranteed good game
Fliment:  He looks like a really good acquisition.
Willis: I think that was an average performance from him. Where average  = outstanding.

We & other teams know what Doyle is like so why do people damage their blood pressure by saying the same things they have said before.

[welsh wasp]

PS Has our new No. 8 lost weight?

[Hymenoptera]

We & other teams know what Doyle is like so why do people damage their blood pressure by saying the same things they have said before.

Erm...because he again cost us the game, just like the last game. I don't see LI complaining about his performance so it isn't 'other' teams. If it's acceptable to you then that's fine but for others it isn't so that's why.

As for your other call outs.
Robson is an Intl player and shouldn't need gametime on top of the longest pre season ever. Both his opposites outplayed him. His decision making for the 3 was frankly embarrassing.
Kilbrige did finish well but needs to up the defence at this level otherwise the finishes stand for nothing because points are all that matter...we lost again but its ok, the finishes were good. He wasn't the only one culpable though.
Lima was Lima, Cips is history, no need  to even mention him..Lima did nothing wrong but nothing of note. No chips, no grubbers, no control, no creativity, basically just shipping it on much like I did at school. As an AB he's performing no better than Searle or Umaga...so flip a coin for a starter, i'll take Umaga. If thats a decent game for you we will remain bang average.
Watson has played FB before for us and Falcons, he didn't have to field a great deal so yes did ok in that regard, except for the small matter of butchering a try.

As well as LI showed up, the stark reality is that they are in all probability a bottom 2 side, losing at home just isn't on, now we have to go beat Sarries away to even it out.
Last season was tiring, I made excuse after excuse as to the poor results, always looking for some positives. I'm sad to say that based on this game it appears there was no break in the season, this could be a continuation of last season as if nothing had happened, and as such my frustration hasn't reset either.
I'm out of slack to cut.
If anyone saw the Bristol game, we should be very concerned that the 'weaker' teams are down to 2 and we were just beaten by one of them AT HOME!!!

[Neils]

Cips is history, no need  to even mention him.

So why?

[Westy68]

The line out was poor
when we tried to pick and go we struggled to make ground
Lima sits and passes too deep
Why do we go to sleep for periods of the game. For me Dai doesn't seem to get the players up for the game, so lethargic at times
we can't defend consistently.

For me the coaching set up is poor and the last 2 seasons we have brought in a lot of poor players into our squad and a lot of good players have left. Our front row is good, our back row is very good, Launchbury is fantastic, I like Dan Robson, Gopperth was awesome not sure how good he is now. The rest need to start to show a more consistent level, 1 in 3 games is not good enough. This is a professional sport now, play well or don't play. The thing is Dai goes for the name of the player and not how good he is playing

I'm sorry, I thought we would finish 8th this season, I'm very nervous of our prospects considering our first 5 games. We don't seem to learn from our constant mistakes