Should he stay or should he go?

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Right, I have a plan.

A lot of folk are hurting after the poor opening to the season, and a lot of folk are deeply worried about the future of the club we all love.

However I am not willing to let this site slide into another version of the angry mess DW has become where every thread becomes a rehashed version of the same argument.  And so I have created this thread for discussion about our DoR and whether people feel he is the problem, or the solution.  And so I'd be extremely grateful if you could keep discussions about Dai here on this thread.

If posts are made on other threads that derail the conversation to this topic I will simply move them here.

Thanks for your understanding.

FWIW my personal opinion is that there is clearly something amiss, but I don't buy that Dai is the root cause.  I'll try and explain.

The season where we reached the final we had a number of wonderful stars who undebniably lifted the team.  I even wrote an article about how Beale had lifted the morale of the squad, and the other player's beliefs in their own skill.  We had a season where people tried outrageous things on the pitch, and sometimes they worked.  Dai was in charge then.

This season we have a squad with a number of wonderful stars who are simply not performing to that ability.  Dai is in charge now. 

Our style of play a couple of years ago was something to behold.  Flat to the line, lots of dummy runners, heads up, ball in hand rugby that was a joy to watch. A lot of people credit this entirely to Fiver, but we were doing it before he came.  Ruaridh Jackson was playing exactly that style (go watch Toulon at Home when he was our 10) and some of us were bemoaning the fact that Gopps wasn't able to match that style, it was even suggested that he should maybe be tried at 12.  Danny was better at it than most and took it to a whole new level, but it wasn't new.  Dai was in charge then.

Our style of play now is predictable, we still present two lines of attack with dummy runners, but we seem so lethargic and our dummy runners start from a standing start that they either receive hospital passes, or Sopps is forced to pass deep to stop his line getting flattened.  Dai is in charge now.

We had academy prospects being ignored and not making it to the senior squad.  Dai was in charge.

We promoted record numbers of academy players to the senior squad. Dai  was in charge.

Before DR rescued the club and we were essentially broke players were signing because of Dai.  His vision, his ability to motivate and inspire were often quoted as the reason people came to the club.  How is that any different now?

I genuinely don't know what the issue is, but I don't belive in blaming him for all the poor play, and passing the credit of the good play on to others.  However something definitely isn't right. 

I think we have been on the wrong end of a number of unfortunate situations, SISU, Beale leaving early, Danny dithering about his future, Wade and Daly both dropping us in it. Sopps and his family struggling to settle in after moving to the other side of the world.  But I think the one thing that would make the biggest difference to the team is getting more coaching hours.  They don't have to be top level, though it would be great if they were.  But I'd rather have two extra coaches who were pretty good, than one extra who was great.

Sadly I think we're going to struggle this season.  But I don't think it is Dai's fault.  I do suspect that the attitudes of many fans openly and publicly slating him and the squad on forums like these does have a negative effect though.  We accept that some players are confidence players, I think Wasps is a confidence team.

I know it is never going to happen, but if we made a concerted effort to talk about the positives and not dwell on the negatives I genuinely believe it would make a difference.

[matelot22]

Pretty much agree with all of that VV, I just think that Dai quite simply has too much to do. Would love to see some additions to the coaching staff so that he can leave hands on coaching and concentrate on being a DoR

[Wilberforce]

I was planning to retire in about 9 months.
I found that once I had made that decision to leave my current employer, I became, despite myself, materially less interested in my work at my current employer, to the extent that I am effectively forced to bring forward my retirement.

[HDAWG]

This will only be answered based on time.

If Dai there's evidence of him trying to fix our problems then I don't think it's him that's the problem. E.g. if he tries new strategies and changes things. Such as Sopoaga at 12. I'm a bit shocked he hasn't tried this yet....

Simultaneously if he's not improving ideas and developing strategies as the game changes then it might be time for a change. Some coaches don't react to the way the game changes and this might be one of those times.

I also think the players need to step up. I have no idea why they're not motivated, but in those highlights from the weekend they looked very unmotivated. So far only Jack Willis has been pushing himself a lot, no one else seems to hold themselves to the same standards.

[Heathen]

I think that many people misunderstand Dai, myself included.

I do not doubt his commitment to the cause but it his persona that is not inspiring. He is dull and monotone.

I do not doubt his knowledge, but I just wish that he could be a more jovial bloke. He might then give us more confidence in him.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I was planning to retire in about 9 months.
I found that once I had made that decision to leave my current employer, I became, despite myself, materially less interested in my work at my current employer, to the extent that I am effectively forced to bring forward my retirement.

That is definitely a possibility, but I suspect that Derek and the rest of the board are aware of it as a concept and would deal with it if it was indeed the case.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

This will only be answered based on time.

If Dai there's evidence of him trying to fix our problems then I don't think it's him that's the problem. E.g. if he tries new strategies and changes things. Such as Sopoaga at 12. I'm a bit shocked he hasn't tried this yet....

Simultaneously if he's not improving ideas and developing strategies as the game changes then it might be time for a change. Some coaches don't react to the way the game changes and this might be one of those times.

I also think the players need to step up. I have no idea why they're not motivated, but in those highlights from the weekend they looked very unmotivated. So far only Jack Willis has been pushing himself a lot, no one else seems to hold themselves to the same standards.

Maybe he has been trying different ideas, maybe that is exactly why our style of play looks different?  I agree about people looking unmotivated, but I'm not sure we can lay that at Dai's door without knowing a little more about it.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I think that many people misunderstand Dai, myself included.

I do not doubt his commitment to the cause but it his persona that is not inspiring. He is dull and monotone.

I do not doubt his knowledge, but I just wish that he could be a more jovial bloke. He might then give us more confidence in him.

Having met him I would say that the way he comes across on TV is not representative of the way he is in person. 

The sad fact is he can't win.  When he fobs the press off with platitudes he is slated for not understanding exactly what is going on.  When he bares his soul he is slated for not mannign up and leading from the top.

We cannot know how he is with the players, so judging him on how he reacts when he is emotionally raw after another loss and someone sticks a camera in his face seems a little unfair at best.

[Rifleman Harris]

I'm wondering if Sopps at 12 has been a realistic option up to now - his form has been iffy and there have been long periods where we were down to the bare bones at 10.  Maybe with more options at 10 it may happen. 

Alex Fergusson was a master at changing his coaching team to bring in new ideas, particularly his 'Number 2'.  I wonder if Dai needs to look there a bit? I don't think Dai finds it easy to let go of the ropes and I reckon that that isn't helping and may also be why he may be looking at the 'perfect' coach rather than a very good coach.  It may also be why we keep getting linked with tehse top coaches, but never quite landing them.

Fergusson was also great at rebuilding his team every few years.  I think we are going through a rebuilding phase right now, but maybe forced rather than planned which has been more disruptive than it could have been. That said, given the nature of the sport planning for enforced change is probably something that needs to be looked at (and I think the recent additions from the academy help a lot here).

[Vespula Vulgaris]

It may also be why we keep getting linked with tehse top coaches, but never quite landing them.

There is a lot more to this than has been made public.  Wasps have not been treated especially honourably by some.

[Rifleman Harris]

It may also be why we keep getting linked with tehse top coaches, but never quite landing them.

There is a lot more to this than has been made public.  Wasps have not been treated especially honourably by some.

True, and I would be really surprised if there was one reason behind any aspect of any all this.  Life is far more complicated than that.

[Neils]

I think that many people misunderstand Dai, myself included.

I do not doubt his commitment to the cause but it his persona that is not inspiring. He is dull and monotone.

I do not doubt his knowledge, but I just wish that he could be a more jovial bloke. He might then give us more confidence in him.

Having met him I would say that the way he comes across on TV is not representative of the way he is in person. 

The sad fact is he can't win.  When he fobs the press off with platitudes he is slated for not understanding exactly what is going on.  When he bares his soul he is slated for not mannign up and leading from the top.

We cannot know how he is with the players, so judging him on how he reacts when he is emotionally raw after another loss and someone sticks a camera in his face seems a little unfair at best.

I would strongly second this. The times I have met him - as a supporter - he has been a delight to chat to. Surprisingly open about games. Even got a bear hug one foreign wet night for waiting to see the team off - nearly spilt my drink!.

Also your point about Ruaraidh is well made and one I said a number of times in the past on DW to be shot down by the "fiver is god" brigade. Sadly his time with us was an Adams Park injury and a Jimmy away from being remembered.

[westwaleswasp]

The DW site has been remarkably cordial this year, bar one totally unnecessary outbreak of infighting. The reason for the outbreak of unexpected cordiality is the poor start, which I feel has dampened the spirits to the point where the hysterical voices about the state of things seem a bit less hysterical. There is some worry that we haven't recruited well not having reinforced 12 whilst recruiting another 13, and it is hard to argue otherwise. Similarly our new 8, who I think is a decent signing, comes into an area where we have strength whilst our second row resources look weaker, unless the plan is to play Shields there. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask what Dai is aiming for this year style wise, especially as we signed Lima for Danny, two completely different tens.

For me I was always a big fan of Dai, but way back when Dai bought in Losi when he had Varndell, who failed to make the team in his last year. That rang alarm bells. Some of Danny's comments after he left rang some more. Recent recruitment certainly asks some questions. We have signed a fair few powerful backs over the years, some worked, some didn't, but with Robson/Cips/Jimmy and some super strike runners there was no need to worry.
Now we have lost lots of those strike runners, and whilst we have signed some replacements who look promising, 9/10/12 looks ineffective for one reason or another.

[SilverShire]

I still have a lot of faith in Dai as DoR, just not so much as a head coach. Bring in someone to take a lot of the coaching pressure off Dai's shoulders. Someone with top level coaching experience, not tier 2.
But also bring in an ex player as a specialist coach. Think back to the effect of George Smith on the rest of our back row and how much he taught them.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I have no idea how the team trains. There is a limit to how physicality the body can take in any day or week, or immediately after a game.

It strains my brain to remember back over 40 years to when I played, but I do recall that we had all week summer rugby camps. Some of it was out and out conditioning and set play training. But a lot was where we split up and did our own thing. Not a lot of hard work, but a lot of bonding, chatting and ball playing. Most importantly, there was no structure. No goals. Our coach was Roger Johnston (Old Leamingtonians will remember him). He would watch us backs doing our thing. A comment here and there. Lots of encouragement. But, these days, the players do their training and then go their separate ways.