Should he stay or should he go?

[mike909]

I cannot know what the problem is - but there is a problem...

However, firstly, all coaching regime have a sell by date and its just possible that our's has come to its - possibly 18 months ago

Secondly, its easy to suggest that Dai and the team should be given credit for the recent better times if we are to give them discredit for the more recent periods - but I don't think - as others have said - that life is so easy to sort out

My personal impression  - perhaps based a little on comments made - and just from observing the team play - is that the coaching team did ok and we improved incrementally over 5 seasons to the Prem final loss to Exeter. Partly due to recruitment, partly the coaching and partly excellent individuals like Goode and Wade and others. We held on to that the next year and then for whatever reason - started to lose players and without the key individuals - seemed to have less of a pattern or system to fall back on and the coaching team were unable - for whatever reason to turn around the problems. Hence last season and the start to this

But as soccer shows so many times, the "change the coach" approach is just one component in what is a complex matter. But that doesn't mean that Wasps ought not to consider the coaching set up. 

[Dgwasp]

Not sure what we would achieve if he went now, although I am hoping that the wheels are in full motion lining up a quality successor.

I'd prefer any DoR change to be in the mould of Quin's or Saints rather than Leicester... If we blindly replace Dai now I fear we may be more like the latter of those examples.

[Gaz]

I like Dai, he has a lot of credit in the bank for his work up to the last year or so.

I am not advocating he is removed, especially at this moment, but someone has to be accountable for the poor performances and results, and that is what he is payed the big bucks for. The slump has gone on for far to long to just hope that something might turn around.

[HDAWG]

I agree with suggestions to add to coaching set up. But Dai has been vocal saying he sees DOR and head coach as same thing. We need another forwards coach and defence coach to really improve.

My dream is Dai as DOR and Scott Robinson as head coach. Will never happen but a man can dream.

Other than that alternative coaches that are quality are very rare...

[Andywasp50]

Sorry, just a brief invasion, but just a point to make re Dai. That part in a job interview where they ask you what your strength and weaknesses are, and often one of your strengths turns out to be one of your weaknesses too is the conundrum Dai is in I think.

I think his biggest attribute is his loyalty, which we benefited from when he stayed at the club whilst it was on his knees. It also shows a great deal of determination on his part.

Loyalty is the hallmark of a decent person and I think Dai is a thoroughly good man, but it's coming back to haunt him because he's being loyal to personnel in key positions that he likes, but who aren't up to the job or have fallen behind as the game has move on.

I think Dai has been in his position as DoR for too long, but before anyone changes that, I would rather we got rid of Costello first and saw how things went. Mainly because Costello's got no credentials to be a premiership defence coach, had a poor record at Nottingham and wasn't much liked, we fell apart five games in last season which is round about the time his new 'systems' would bed in and we were perfectly ok under Dai until he came along.

The second is Dan Baugh and the strength and conditioning. Our fitness has always been a bit suspect to me - lots of injuries, flat performances, running out of puff towards the season end etc. I think this year we just look tired and jaded. Hughes looked a lot leaner and more mobile watching the Bristol v Bath game, and seeing Ashton on TV last night he looked a different person - super lean a fit. I think in the S&C area we are probably 4 years behind.

We need to change both IMHO before we change Dai, but I can't see that is in Dai's DNA, he's just too loyal and would probably fall on his sword for both of them which is sad but honourable.

[Mellie]

I posted after Quins game last season, which we just about won, that we seem to lack the fitness to give us the necessary intensity.

It is no coincidence that the best prepared and fittest sides do well. Attention to detail is what makes the difference. It is what Gats and Sarries have been doing for years and what Eddie is benefiting from currently.

Gats short sharp and focussed sessions certainly paid off with Wasps. Being fit enough to keep going at a high level and  doing the basics well under pressure is what the team need immediately, then we can add well executed variations that have been practised to the point of being 2nd nature.

[Westy68]

Im sorry but I don’t rate Dai at all, we did well because we had great individual players.

Dai only got us to one final because we didn’t play as a team. The great Wasps side had a team ethos and a ‘you shall not pass’ attitude when the big games came up.

Dai’s recruitments over the last 2 years have generally been really poor and we have had a lot of players wanting to leave, why?

Too many players from the championship, Jack C-W is the only player that has been great from the championship.

I’m sorry the wingers are not good enough, nowhere near the level of Varndell or wade. Our 2nd row is so weak, why has this not been sorted (not Joe launchbury)

I want great players who will get us in the top 4, which is what we had. I do believe our academy has given us a chance but that’s 2/3 years away.

12 and 10 has seen really poor judgement in player ability, awful decision making by the club/Dai

I’m not convinced by our other 2 New Zealand signings but happy to wait another 6 games before making a final decision.

I’m sick of waiting a year for players players to settle down.

For us to be top 4 we need at least 6 players into our first 15 to be of better quality.

Also why has Dai made terrible choices in our coaching set up?

If it is a case of we don’t have the money therefore we get lower quality players for less money, then fair enough.

If it isn’t then Dai needs to change things, look what happened to Northampton.

It is down to Dai and at the moment he is making a lot of mistakes. If he changes it then a lot of respect is needed. Making comments about leaving at the end of your contract because you want to be an international DOR is a poor thing to do. Keep your mouth shut and get on with your current job

Eddie Jones is doing it at the right time, if England win the World Cup then he can’t be challenged on what a lot of people perceived as odd decisions.

4 years from nothing to potentially winning a World Cup is an impressive achievement

[Rossm]

Hughes looked a lot leaner and more mobile watching the Bristol v Bath game

Yes indeed. But it wasn't just us he left. He is no longer under the auspices of Jones. So, I for one, am not at all surprised. Jones ruined Nathan as a player since he became part of the England setup.

[BG]

I think there is a natural life cycle of how long a coach should stay at one club. No-one wants to leave a job they feel comfortable in and most bosses don't want to sack coaches they've built up a good rapport with but its inevitable that coaches that stay at the same club for a long period will become stale.

Ackermann is a very interesting case study. Humphries is sill the DoR but Ackermann is basically the front man.

He's brought a different philosphy and interestingly a new coach will also bring in fresh contacts to bring in different players.

I doubt Dai does that much hands on coaching plus he comes from a completely different era compared to current rugby but he is the link between the management and the playing staff and jettisoning him would be a big risk.  How long has Blackett and Titterall been with us?

I think the addition of Gleeson from a completely different background will be good but I'm guessing he's still learning the nuances of the game.

[backdoc]

Someone like Gleeson would be best used coming into a stable effective coaching setup, rather than parachuted in to salvage one that is failing.

[Hymenoptera]

To answer the subject line, stay. But a change is needed somewhere in the structure.
People talk about the shitty coaches we have and havent improved them. I am not aware of a plethora of good coaches sitting at home. We chased top level ones and they didn't come off.
Dai has had to deal with the most self centered Judos winger in the world in Wade and a couple of apples that started to go rotten in Haskell and Daly and players leaving for wads of cash. A terrible run of injuries that removed any continuity just added to the mix. Unbeknowingly to Dai he brought in a worldy 10 who frankly has been playing like a drain. People say he needs to settle..my arse, he's having a great time travelling all over Europe with his happy family in tow. As a top level athlete you should be starting to influence within the month.
That said, there are question marks on recruitment, which I think has been poor over all. He should have identified a lack of leader in the group and gone and found one.
There are question marks on coaching in terms what are we actually coaching, we have set no plays, no creativity, no anything..catch / ship, catch / ship, knock on.
The biggest question for lies with the players and something which kills our game and that's why they have no basic fundamentals. Dropped balls, lost balls, knock ons, kicks out on the full...you name it, they do it. Dai gets the blame but why does this continue to happen, only the players can answer this.

[King Prawn Phuna]

I think there is a natural life cycle of how long a coach should stay at one club. No-one wants to leave a job they feel comfortable in and most bosses don't want to sack coaches they've built up a good rapport with but its inevitable that coaches that stay at the same club for a long period will become stale.

Ackermann is a very interesting case study. Humphries is sill the DoR but Ackermann is basically the front man.

He's brought a different philosphy and interestingly a new coach will also bring in fresh contacts to bring in different players.

I doubt Dai does that much hands on coaching plus he comes from a completely different era compared to current rugby but he is the link between the management and the playing staff and jettisoning him would be a big risk.  How long has Blackett and Titterall been with us?

I think the addition of Gleeson from a completely different background will be good but I'm guessing he's still learning the nuances of the game.

As I was trawling through this thread Ackermann/Humphries was going through my mind.  Despite both being in the box together on matchdays, they have a clear split on responsibilities.

Ackermann and his staff are on field playing and coaching.  Humphries is team management and contracts.  JA says I want someone like....DH goes and finds one.....and it works really well.

Watch and see what Steve Vaughan does...there's a great story that DH tells about how SV recruited DH from Ulster.

That said which would you want Dai doing coaching or contracts?

[BrackenandMacken]

We have had the same problems for over 12 months and in some cases alot longer.

Poor defence, no structure that enables multi phase attacking play, dreadful decision making, high player turnover and poor recruitment.

If Dai is the man to fix the above then why hasn't he? Why are there no signs of progress?

Whilst I understand some areas may not be overnight fixes we are fresh off one of the longest pre seasons a rugby club will have and so far we have managed to look worse than last year (and last year we were bad!).

People talk about us needing to rebuild but to do that big decisions need to be made. If it's Dai that takes us forward fine, great in fact, he may be able to make it work but he needs to accept we need to completely go back to basics, we have a good scrum, this season focus on defence, line out and kick chase, develop from there.

Pick a young 10 who will be around for many years who you can mould this team around. We have two very promising talents, back them.

Personally I would be happy if it actually looked like we had made a strategic decision to rebuild the side into one that could challenge in the future, right now we seem to just be trying to play rugby and implement structures that is far beyond our coaching teams and back lines capabilities.

[BG]

Dai has had to deal with the most self centered Judos winger in the world in Wade and a couple of apples that started to go rotten in Haskell and Daly and players leaving for wads of cash. A terrible run of injuries that removed any continuity just added to the mix. Unbeknowingly to Dai he brought in a worldy 10 who frankly has been playing like a drain.

You should get off the fence and say what's really on your mind.   

If the various reports were also correct WLR mislead Dai on how much time he would spend with SA at the start of last season (if I remember correctly Faf didn't make himself available for all of SA's games and flew back at the earliest opportunity to represent his club - who paid his wages) and apparently there were some disagreements about WLR's pay accordingly during the time away. He also looked like he had mentally left the club way before the season ended.

In hindsight SA started improving (2 yrs ago they were dreadful) when Rassie was appointed and demanded that he be allowed to pick anyone playing in any league.. so Faf, WLR, Louw, De Koch, who may have thought their international careers were over, we re-instated and hey presto.. SA started to improve.

BTW.. I didn't realise Wadey was an exponent of Judo.

[Rossm]

Andy's nightmare: