Vs Edinburgh on the box

[Hymenoptera]

Well, another poor performance.
If Brooks cant keep the scrum up then no need for him to start as he offers pretty much nothing around the park. I thought JTA gave more in the short time he was on the pitch.
Miller exchanged his fingers for butter in the off season although overall was't too bad.
Best game i've seen from Sops, that said, we seemed to have more zip with Gops at 10, maybe timing?
Dan whilst he didn't nothing wrong, he's become a time vacuum and never threatens the line, meaning defenders are never wondering.
Boog just isn't at the quality needed and Fekitoa showed zero creativity.
We were out powered all over the pitch and lineout was tragic.

Is it me or are our performances getting worse, we were better earlier in the season and that's saying something.

Carr excellent again, as was Willis.

[westwaleswasp]

Sobering stuff.

[Shugs]

Another nearly but not quite performance although I'm not sure this was that good. Positives were Lima, Willis, Carr and Kibirige. Again we were in it but sort of not really and again we conceded soft tries. Why on earth Shields was risked I don't know - he clearly wasn't fit. Willis and Carr must now be kept for league games only. A worrying trend is emerging in that we're falling away second half on a regular basis. Not sure why but we've got to go for the full 80.

[Westy68]

I’m getting sick and tired of Dai Inability to get a group of players playing like a team.

The recruitment has been truly awful in the last couple of seasons, I’m sorry guys but I’m really worried for this season.

[mike909]

Bit of a marmite game.

There were lots of encouraging bits of play that in isolation looked like we were able to compete with a decent side, but...

There were bits that looked like we'd been introduced in the car park just before the game

We're playing too often. like less than the sum of the parts. That's not a good look and will not look good over our next three Prem games where  we need two wins to look like we're serious about staying up

I cannot know what the problem is - there are enough players of quality - regardless of leavers and recruitment - but those like Carr who look like great players almost look like they are playing by themselves.

Seriously concerned. Time for drastic action???

[Stinging Wasp]

You and me both Westy. We are going downhill fast. Great players like Launcbury, Robson, Sopoaga, Fekitoa, Carr and Willis etc are being coached by people with barely more talent than me. Unless that is addressed now we are going down. Out of the Prem Cup and Europe's 2nd tier competition is just unacceptable before Christmas. What the hell has happened to our once great club?

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[Shugs]

Sorry but I just can't accept that very good players are somehow being dragged into mediocrity by coaches. I'm also not sure that recruitment has been poor. Having said that we're not winning games. Do we just need time of which we don't have much? I know it's not great for the paying public but I'd be putting out the under 10's for next week and keeping everyone back for Quins.

[Stinging Wasp]

They are being dragged down. At the county level sport I play it's easy to be dragged down when going back to club level. It's always down to the quality of the coaches assessment of the opposition, rather than the players you're up against. We need telling what to do but if the coaches aren't up to it, we struggle. Same as with Wasps.

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[Westy68]

I agree this is predominantly down to very poor coaching, Dai is not up to it as he has made a lot of mistakes recently.

I can’t except that we haven’t recruited badly, we have brought players in that are just not good enough, also we have brought in players that are good but are just badly coached.

I think it’s time for a change, Dai will get us relegated

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I agree this is predominantly down to very poor coaching, Dai is not up to it as he has made a lot of mistakes recently.

I can’t except that we haven’t recruited badly, we have brought players in that are just not good enough, also we have brought in players that are good but are just badly coached.

I think it’s time for a change, Dai will get us relegated

That doesn't make sense.

Is it the coaching?  Or is it the players?

We keep hearing that god coaching can make average players look good, and that all our previous success was down to good players even with bad coaches.

Which is it?

[mike909]

We keep hearing that god coaching can make average players look good, and that all our previous success was down to good players even with bad coaches.

Which is it?

They are not mutually exclusive positions. We can easily currently be poor in part due to coaching and have been good due mainly to the players then available. Its not black and white wither - it probably wasn't (recently) just good players and  its probably not now just poor coaching...but there sure is something very wrong,

[Westy68]

Just to confirm we have brought in average players who are now made to look poor. We have good players made to look poor.

Even when we had a group of Exceptional players we couldn’t defend, the coaching set up is the problem

[Gaz]

When we had good players we out scored the opposition. That was entertainment! Also the closest we got to winning something.

I'd take a few TBPs and LBPs now.

[wasps]

I am a staunch defender of Dai. I love the guy and would be happy if he never left the club.

However, Westy is right that the quality of some of the players brought in over the last few years has not been good enough.
The reason for that, in my opinion is that we've been trying to focus on depth.
I don't know the exact numbers, but we had a tiny squad a few years ago, and now we have a significantly larger one.

We need that larger squad, but it brings with it its own problems... And ultimately hasn't stopped us having an injury crisis in the 2nd row.
The biggest problem with the larger squad is that you have to pay those players. If they're very good quality players, you have to pay them a lot and potentially they won't play. If you pay them less, they're likely lower quality and you're hoping for a few to make the step up (Flament).... Either way, when building depth, the quality of the first 23 is likely impacted.



It's a tough business, made easier when you're winning... But we're not

[Westy68]

You can get depth if you know want you are looking for, for me we haven’t Chosen well.

Also players who are clearly quality players still have to be coached as a unit, not individuals.

This is the problem we are all over the place, a good coaching set up would not have us as a relegation candidate