Edinburgh match

[SilverShire]

My 2 cents about Miller's fumble. He was moving the ball from under one arm to his hands to get the pass away at speed, and the ball slipped in the process. I am not going to smite the lad for something that can happen very easily.

If a player is unable to transfer the ball from one position to another without dropping it, which as a professional should be a lower than basic ball skill, then god help us because I expect players for pub teams being able to do that. While its not worth singling him out for it in a game of utter dross, let's not make excuses either.
I checked this morning and its official, Robson was so static in his play he was captured on Google Maps.
There were positives to take from the game but they are so outweighed by the negatives it's not even worth highlighting them.

I agree with you. All I was trying to say was it was a freak incident. If he was doing it week in week out then I would be having a very different approach to it.

On another note, I would like to see Porter start next week . Thought Sops and Fekitoa looked good when there was speed on the ball delivery and Robson just wasn't delivering.

[Hymenoptera]

I hear what your saying..
I thought Sops played well but 12 / 13 offered very little. I agree and TBH i'd start Brookes at 9 before Dan, I have no idea what is going on with him. At least Porter ran to the line to keep the defence guessing. Lets not forget Wolly has played well so either of them would be fine for me, we need to create some zip.

[Heathen]

I hear what your saying..
I thought Sops played well but 12 / 13 offered very little. I agree and TBH i'd start Brookes at 9 before Dan, I have no idea what is going on with him. At least Porter ran to the line to keep the defence guessing. Lets not forget Wolly has played well so either of them would be fine for me, we need to create some zip.

I'd be happy to see Wolstenhome start next week. Dan, sadly, is off the pace required.

[SilverShire]

I thought Wolstenhome was injured? could be wrong, it's been known to happen

[Neils]

Back to the match -
Why can a Pro 14 Ref do a match including a Pro 14 club. Yes I know he is Irish but speaking to an Edinburgh player today they had him in a recent match and were constantly pinged at the scrum so ensured that last night they were in the right and we were found wanting. Not an excuse for our play but does not seem right.

[Sting]

Official...it's the players not the coaches!
At least that is the view of Bobby Bridge as he looks a the big picture.
Costello must have got Bobby's ear.
All blacks have not suddenly become poor players..they are executing a system they have been told to.
Backs have not unilateraly decided to stop running lines and just ship the ball out wide....they are being coached to.
Slow ball from the number 9 is persisting match after match...this os for coach to fix.
Aimless kicking and lack ball hang to allow kick and chase ...is drilled by the coaches.
Defending narrow forcing the opposition wide where we are weak on tackling and it leaves oppo with 2 or 3 man overlap every game..is a coached system.
As ref kept repeating, scrumming too low is either neing coached in or should be coached out. The scrum has been erratic all season and with all combinations of 2nd row.
Lack of creativity in attack from talented players speaks of lack of confidence in the sytem.
Good coaches get more than the sum of the parts from a team. For Mr Bridge to absolve their responsibility is disapointing.

[BG]

Official...it's the players not the coaches!
At least that is the view of Bobby Bridge as he looks a the big picture.
Costello must have got Bobby's ear.
All blacks have not suddenly become poor players..they are executing a system they have been told to.
Backs have not unilateraly decided to stop running lines and just ship the ball out wide....they are being coached to.
Slow ball from the number 9 is persisting match after match...this os for coach to fix.
Aimless kicking and lack ball hang to allow kick and chase ...is drilled by the coaches.
Defending narrow forcing the opposition wide where we are weak on tackling and it leaves oppo with 2 or 3 man overlap every game..is a coached system.
As ref kept repeating, scrumming too low is either neing coached in or should be coached out. The scrum has been erratic all season and with all combinations of 2nd row.
Lack of creativity in attack from talented players speaks of lack of confidence in the sytem.
Good coaches get more than the sum of the parts from a team. For Mr Bridge to absolve their responsibility is disapointing.

I'm confused  - which bits are your thoughts and which bits are Bobby Bridge's thoughts?

[Sting]

Official...it's the players not the coaches!
At least that is the view of Bobby Bridge as he looks a the big picture.
Costello must have got Bobby's ear.
All blacks have not suddenly become poor players..they are executing a system they have been told to.
Backs have not unilateraly decided to stop running lines and just ship the ball out wide....they are being coached to.
Slow ball from the number 9 is persisting match after match...this os for coach to fix.
Aimless kicking and lack ball hang to allow kick and chase ...is drilled by the coaches.
Defending narrow forcing the opposition wide where we are weak on tackling and it leaves oppo with 2 or 3 man overlap every game..is a coached system.
As ref kept repeating, scrumming too low is either neing coached in or should be coached out. The scrum has been erratic all season and with all combinations of 2nd row.
Lack of creativity in attack from talented players speaks of lack of confidence in the sytem.
Good coaches get more than the sum of the parts from a team. For Mr Bridge to absolve their responsibility is disapointing.

I'm confused  - which bits are your thoughts and which bits are Bobby Bridge's thoughts?

Sorry for the confusion. it's the players not the coaches was my take from his recent article.
The rest of the post was my opinion. We fans are all hurting from the current situation and absolving coaches/management of responsibility for the situation we are in is tough to take.
apologies again for the confusion.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-rugby-verdict-bobby-bridge-17381529

[WickedWasp]

I think it's a well written piece with good explanation for his findings. We are not that far off. The league is as always very tight.

[andermt]

It was a tough watch on Friday night but a good atmosphere.
On the night we weren't far off at half time but lost our way a bit in the 2nd half, losing Brookes to the bin didn't help. The comment from Neil's above on the Scrum with Clancy was exactly what I was told by an Edinburgh fan on a tram on the way back into the city.  He was also going on about how strong their pack is (and how useless Clancy is as a reg). On the subject of which, at the end we took a dropgoal conversion which I thought was just before the 80mins, by seconds anyone know the exact timing, I.e.was the game finished early?.
Overall a few of the knock-ons less and we would have been up there on the scoreboard and it would have been a much tighter game, which can make a massive difference to a team chasing the score.
Thought there was some good play eminating from Lima and Fekitoa was very up for this one as well, noticed him trying to get Millar I think to take a quick lineout as he had obviously spotted a gap, he was not happy when it didn't happen. To me that really showed there is a lot of passion to get the job done by the players, they just need a bit of luck at times.
Looking forward to the return match and also the Quin's games as I think we can win both at home if we can keep the ball in hand.

[mike909]

I find Bobby's various analysis usually spot on.

I find this hard to back though

Could it be coaching? I struggle to believe this is an issue. Backs leader Lee Blackett was in the role when Wasps were lighting up the Premiership and Europe with scintillating attacking play. Forwards coach Andy Titterrell was one of the most skilful forwards to have graced the English game.

Past success is no indication that current problems are not connected to the coaches. Virtually every coach has a shelf life and look at Saints. Mallinder was in charge with the same players in the period of success and period of stagnation which led to his leaving.

Eddie Jones was in charge of the Aussies to the 03 RWC final and their period of great play AND in charge when they lost 8 from 9 and got sacked.

The coaches set the tone, the tactics and the culture. It won't always be just the coaches - but to absolve them from our current and previous season problems is naive - least for me.

[HDAWG]

Mike, completely agree +1

[wasps]

Mike, I'm not saying I disagree, but continuing the Eddie Jones theme, lots of people said his coaching had run it's course in 2016/17, only for him to turn it around this year.

Admittedly, he refreshed some of his coaches, but was widely criticised for doing that.

Wasps too have changed coaches, sometimes by choice, sometimes not.


There's obviously a number of high profile things that have worked against us, and I don't know enough about coaching to really have an expert opinion.
I'm completely on the side of Dai that we didn't want to just jump and get any random defence coach when Danny Wilson went to Scotland. However, it's frustrating that it's now been a lot of years without a full coaching setup.

[Sting]

Mike my worry is that we are seeing an example of jorno not wanting to upset DoRs or coaches because their livelihood depends on their goodwill tor access to players, coaches, facilities for news and stories. We saw this with the media's reaction to the Saracens cheating..very muted,
I could easily have missed it, but you seen one Bobby Bridge personal opinion piece on the Saracens cheating?

[mike909]

Wasps - Jones was probably saved by recruiting Scott Wisemantel, in 2018 for the SA tour and then through to the RWC. Totally changed the England approach by the 2018 AI's.

But the only point I was really making was "coach shelf life" and how the end of any coach's effective period can come about v quickly. Jones recruitment of Scott W probably made a material difference at a point when many - as you point out - were suggesting Jones era might be over. That change moved England on (alongside quite a few players being removed, Brown and others - something we don't have the luxury of doing)

We can't recruit a new squad - we are where we are - the only refresh realistically possible is in coaching/people with day to day contact with the players.