Morning after thoughts on the Bristol game

[Jac A]

Long post, thought I put it here rather than in the emotion filled match thread - I had to celebrate Carr's try in silence as I think the dog would have had a heart attack (she struggles with the emotional rollercoaster of watching me watch sport!).

Agree with loads of what has been said by others but my thoughts below.

Scrum - BT stat about best in Prem interesting though it is based just on completed scrums on own put in so not that technical. We were ok at best here.
Lineout - Good, solid all game, mixed it up well with some good moves (maybe Matthews had the chance to get to grips with the call book). Good win on their throw too.
Maul - Got pinged a couple of times but in the unbiased opinions of Lol, Dai and Wasps fans on social media these were unfair. I thought we worked well to bring down a couple and Lauch was also annoyed when he brought one down in their half and was told to leave the ball and let them play away so no complaints here.
Breakdown - The cliched Wild West show. We won a few, lost a couple, slowed them down and competed well but didn't get a complete dominance. What was nice was that we didn't go into contact in ones, get isolated and turned over.
Kicking/Aerial - Some poor but some good. Not a great deal of change, clearances generally good, kicks to compete less so and still some that you're not sure what the intention was. We were better in the air than we have been though.
Front Row - Carried well but interesting how few tackles the starting props made (admittedly we had a lot more ball). Didn't get caught out and decent but nothing exceptional. Taylor has a great game - top tackler, good on the floor, good darts. Cruise his usual self (a good thing).
Second Row - Lauch was a talisman as he often is and Matthews ran the lineout well. Matthews and Cardell didn't really put their hand up for any carrying either but did little wrong.
Back Row - Great. Tackled, competed hard at the breakdown, carried well, made over 100m combined, linked well and obviously Carr's try.
Half Backs - No great change from Dan, looked to burst through a couple of times, but it seemed forced. Still a bit slow and in field kicks are usually a disappointment. Jacob had a good game overall but place kicking and one out on the full would possible be criticised more if he was a different 10.
Centres - Booj isn't a top player but he isn't awful and he did some nice things. Fekitoa had a great game, it has obviously taken a few months to settle into the style and the league but I am impressed with him and thing he will have a really good season. Strong, tackled well, good runs and good decision making. Jimmy looked good when he came on - he was really important in Carr's try in sucking defenders in and creating the space wide.
Back Three - Still worried when other teams go wide but they all look dangerous on the attack. Minozzi is a decent defender for a little guy and there are defiantly tries in these guys - looking forward to the ground getting firmer and the ball being drier.

A couple of other things I noticed, leadership has been questioned. I though Lauch stepped up here really well. Early on when we were pinged for not rolling he questioned Peace and that may have led to us getting a pen for Afoa not rolling (no way was that a pen) and Pearce saying to Lauch something along the lines of 'See, I'm penalising them too'. Little things but he's doing what a captain should.
Anyone questioning the coaching should look at the way we defended. We were very ready for the Bristol game plan of quick pop passes in traffic with runners coming through and shut them down here and forced a lot of handling errors. I think we had clearly been looking at their plays and come up with a plan to nullify it, which is what you want from the coaching team.

Obviously there are negatives - we left 8 points out there with missed kicks (to their 3) and Piutau's kick return through the dog leg when Valianu failed to go up in line could easily have been another try to them.

We keep saying it, but it is fine margins. We could so easily have lost and that would have been totally undeserved but we managed to get the final try and get 5 points instead of 1. If we had got the try that was disallowed against Quins last week we could have done the same there but didn't so that (in some quarters) was written off as a terrible performance and proof we were going down and this is a fantastic win. So a couple of close calls in the Quins and LI games and we'd be in the mix in the top half.

I've been very close to wanting Dai to step aside or make serious coaching changes but I think we are on the right course. Dai is right to say we are not a top 4 side at the moment but we have been unlucky. I think we have enough to survive this year and then build on the youngsters we have.

[mike909]

Good and well thought through post

I wouldn't disagree overall. But I am very cautious. We did defend well and seemed up for the game. It felt like their had been some honest straight talking after 'Quins which focused minds. We still looked to individuals to shine too much still and we're still only where we hoped to be after 'Quins, one more win. One swift doesn't make a summer and we do need to back this up

The margins are fine, but we haven't been so unlucky, we have been quite awful at times and lacking focus. It was obvious how much this meant to the team - but it is down to the leadership/coaching to change your luck. There is still long way to go to feel reasonably safe. We're only matching Newcastle from last seaaon

I did think the ref had a bit of a 'mare and applied Laws 14 and 15 both inconsistently and incorrectly too often. It should not be such a challenge - no hands when its a ruck ffs....and entering the breakdown from an onside position. The scrum calls early on were beyond my understanding - even as an old prop!

Squad and coaches should enjoy the result and then remember to have a good does of reality, back at the ranch, next week.

[JonnyD]

It’s a tricky one isn’t it. Without that moment of brilliance from Carr we would have all been back on here saying how we threw it away. With 5 mins left I said to my wife, wait, we still have plenty of time to mess this one up. 2 mins later Sheedy added three points and we were losing, although a questionable refereeing decision led to this of course.
We were much improved as a whole and more consistent across the whole game but we are still a long way away and fortunately Lady Luck was on our side this time around.

[Shugs]

For me this was a similar game to a few of the others we've had but we just managed to come out the right side of things. By and large it's been a season of tight margins. There were some encouraging differences in the Briz game though. Tries. At time we've looked lateral this season but we had some real penetration in this one. Fekitoa was the catalyst in that for me. Defence. To me our defence has been acceptable this year and was better again. My main reason for optimism though is something as fans we can only judge from our gut feel but this feels like a much more committed and together unit than last season. In some ways that's more important than anything else. We don't appear to have any prima donnas or people clamouring to get out of the door. It's only one win but it feels like it is just what we needed - we've got to back it up now.

[Jac A]

But I am very cautious... One swift doesn't make a summer and we do need to back this up...

The margins are fine, but we haven't been so unlucky, we have been quite awful at times and lacking focus. It was obvious how much this meant to the team - but it is down to the leadership/coaching to change your luck. There is still long way to go to feel reasonably safe. We're only matching Newcastle from last season

Totally agree, we have been really poor at times this season. I don't think we were that much better yesterday. Still some of the same errors with kicking and handling errors and failing to convert after 15 phases etc but this time we got the win and as you say the margins between winning and losing are very fine. If we had got a little more luck on a couple of occasions there wouldn't be so much doom and gloom and Dai must go and Costello must be sacrificed at the alter etc etc. Hopefully we can use the positivity from this to get a bit more luck.

I did think the ref had a bit of a 'mare and applied Laws 14 and 15 both inconsistently and incorrectly too often. It should not be such a challenge - no hands when its a ruck ffs....and entering the breakdown from an onside position. The scrum calls early on were beyond my understanding - even as an old prop!

Yep. In fact, I shouldn't say this but I thought of you when I was pondering the breakdown - 'Mike would be saying how much better it is reffed in NZ'! One issue is that if you stuck rigidly to the rules there would be a penalty at every breakdown so different ref seem to allow different things. My person bugbear is when I hear 'didn't survive the clear out' - there is no requirement to wait for someone to try to clear you, the tackler must release when tackled and if he doesn't it's a pen. And on the otherside, hands appearing when the ruck is clearly formed. You just want the ref to say how he's going to interpret the laws and then do it fairly.

[mike909]

I think we need to back this up before the coaching team can relax. As you say the errors are still there, and plan-wise - I was still a little mystified at times. We won due to some basic forwards work and two pieces of individual "genius".

If it had gone pear shaped, after last week, I'd be looking for changes still and change may still be needed.

Re breakdown - as the M10 refs "talk" the breakdown and so call "release" "roll" "ruck", there isn't a penalty every breakdown

And no, unless you are first and clearly on the ball - it ought to be hands out or penalty - and once the second player is in - its a ruck - so no hands allowed, regardless!

We all want fast ball - and application of the Laws (and as detailed on the little vid clips on World Rugby) would facilitate that

It was also interesting that the Pro14 are more by the book which was nice to see a week or so back!

I'll try and stop going on about it....but its spoiling the game.

[Shugs]

Completely agree Mike. We also need to stop the lottery of in at the side and off feet (penalised one in ten). I'm also mystified at the continued hand wringing and bemusement about the time lost with re-setting scrums. The solution is so simple - stop the clock until the packs engage. We'd still have to sit through the re-sets but the time wouldn't be lost. Sorry - a bit off thread!

[Hymenoptera]

Blimey..the elation of the win didn't last long.
It wasn't a title winning performance and it wasn't error free, far from it but supporters highlight the negatives when we lose and now highlighting the negatives when we win. We know where we are and where we need to be, we are prob not going to get the performance that your looking for so maybe temper your expectations and enjoy the result as much as the players did.
As a reminder, playing at an average level we ran in 4 tries away at Bristol on a Friday night despite the ref doing all he could to prevent the win and mssing a pretty standard 6 points off the tee...i think that needs recognising more than highlighting what we did wrong.

[mike909]

Don't think anyone is talking a win down.

I very much enjoyed the game - as my slow start today would confirm.

Its more keeping things in perspective - Newcastle won 2 from 8 at the start of last season and we need to win again soon to avoid only matching that. We've been decent all season in the scrum - imo rather than the stats - we've never had anything but a good back row but backs-wise it was always going to take a little time with new combinations, but that didn't mean a lack of game management.

But, a win is a win, but....keeping it in perspective...we relied upon some individuals moments this week, there's still the need for game management and yes, sometimes its close margins, but its hasn't been in many games this season. The margin went our way this time, vs a bit of an odd Bristol performance, but we showed more belief and plain dog that many times this season. Credit to all.

The first thing on Monday, for the coaches and players to agree, is that it was great to win, but don't for a second think its more than a step in the right direction. We need a win from Saints and Worcester and that's the only focus.

[WickedWasp]

It is just 1 win. But still feel as mentioned above by others this year there is a lot more cohesion and team spirit. The set piece has been a relative strength especially considering the disruption due to injury. The games on occasions we have lost have been tight or a slip up by an individual. I think most of all this is about confidence in a hungry group with lots of changes. We need back this up continue to be combative and keep our fingers crossed for a few inuired player. Big mac comes to mind.

A great way to see out christmas and a much needed win. Let's enjoy it.

[Little Potts]

No performance is perfect, but for me the takeaway from Friday night is that there appears to be an upward trend in performance for a number of players. For Minozzi and Fekitoa it looked like they were beginning to feel at home, for Dobby and Tommy T they looked a step closer to their old selves. Nemo was back in position and enjoying it more than being on the flank. Despite missing his kicks, Jacob looked more confident in open play. Launch is just Launch and never lets us down.
I agree with comments about the overall cohesion of the team and their obvious delight as posted on twitter post-match, backs this up.

Overall it just feels like the marginal individual gains added up to what was needed to get us over the line. Need to back it up now, but importantly feel that the team BELIEVE they can.

[Lwasp]

Having now watched the full match (tough day at work today, honest) I'm not sure I watched the same game as some others.

Yes, Booj got stripped of the ball inside our 22, but to say it lead to Piatau's try is pushing things a little. Umaga rushing out of the line and totally missing the tackle was how CP ran straight in. Had he made the tackle and pushed Bears back, with the onrushing 2nd tackler to jackle the ball who knows??? And when people question whether Booj is prem standard because he got ripped? We rightly applaud Willis any time he steals the ball for being brilliant, is everyone he steals from "not prem standard"? Because of the comments on here I tried to pay close attention to what Booj was up to, some solid defence, with a few good big hits stopping Bristol moves dead and a couple of nice breaks giving us some forward momentum. Is he the best 12 in the world? Of course not, but that was a solid performance. And if it allows Jimmy to come off the bench with the impact he did, perfect.

I thought the team looked a lot better than they have for some time, working effectively in both structured and scramble defence. I thought this was a good watch:-

https://twitter.com/daviesGDD/status/1211002204733222920?s=08

For all the doom and gloom, with 15 rounds to go we're only 7 points behind 3rd in the table! Playoffs here we come then!!!

 

[Hymenoptera]

Lwasp i rewatched it and like you I thought Booj did ok. In his case it seems like his mistakes or decisions nearly always had/have a consequence given they are usually pivotal. It's a shame as that will make him the stand out for criticism. I still think Gops should be starting over Booj but agree, Booj mistakes tend to be at the wrong time. I guess you could say, make the right decision, remove the opportunity for criticism..anyway..we agree. 

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Every now and again the wider fan base takes a dislike to a player and all they can see if the mistakes. When Charlie Hayter played for us he got flak every game until he gave up 15s completely.

I think Booj is perfectly solid, and we could do with more solid players right now.

I also (and I suspect this may be an unpopular opinion) think Costello is the best defence coach we've had in an age and if he were to leave as many seem to want we'd be utterly screwed.

[westwaleswasp]

Booj  is ok for sure, but Fekitoa played very well outside him. Potentially we could have a superb ten, magnificent 13 with excellent back up, but be eeking out Jimmy or playing Booj at 12, depending on how Dai wants to go. As more of the backs perform well, as we hope they do, what is Booj's ceiling. Could he be in the same bracket as Fekitoa or Minozzi?
I don't think that the fans will be as critical if we start winning and certainly if Booj isn't first choice. I might be wrong, fans get all sorts of bees in the collective bonnet, but I hope  that a few Ws might quell the noise.