Injury Updates

[mike909]

For me Shields is an outstanding player who should be captain. We are fantastically blessed in the back row and when all are fit it just allows us to rotate combinations. Doesn't really matter what the pecking order is and the option to keep players fresh shouldn't be underestimated (look at how it benefits Sarries).

Me too. Having watched a lot of games playing for the 'Canes, he really was a standout player and leader. We've not seen him at his best due to the England "interference" and lack of time off post Super Rugby. I hope we'll see some of the best once his "injury break" is over.

That said - overall - I'm hoping we can have some continuity in selection, especially in the backs, and that those SRs recover as in terms of front row and back row we have decent cover.....fingers crossed for loose head though, and with Jimmy fit and some options in the outside backs - we have the chance to kick on a little.

Still behind the sofa for the Saints game.....

[coddy]

So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Only thing I feel we are missing is a bit of bulk at 12. I like Gopps but just the option would allow us to switch up our play. A bit like what Quins done to us with the USA inside centre. Booj is to much the same.

I know what you mean, but on the few ocassions I have met him Gopps always seemed to have the aura of a man carved from stone. He's not particularly big, but if we want a centre to run hard he is your man every time. It's not the size if the dog in the fight...

In fact now I come to think on it he has something intangible that very few others in the squad have. A presence almost, hard as nails without an ounce of arrogance.

Shame he has to retire eventually.

[WickedWasp]

Agree if it wasnt for his age I'd keep him forever in the shirt.

[Peej]

I don't think Shields carries well enough to get us on the front foot. We've played better when having someone like Ash or Sione - or Nemo if we can get into wider channels - carrying over the gainline to give us quick ball

[Stang]

Brad might not be the biggest or most destructive carrier, but he’s fantastic in defence, is a very smart ball player, is a leader and I rate his footwork so he can at least stretch defensive lines and set up space elsewhere.

Agree others are better on the gain line abrasively (Ash, Jack, Sione etc) but there is a cuteness to Brads approach that could see others - Dobby, Cruse, Nemo, TY, TT etc in a bit of space behind a defence. I know I haven’t named our out and out running players, but that lot seem to always end up in oodles of space!

He is also v experienced. There isn’t much he hasn’t faced in his career. I agree with an earlier post, we will get the best of him soon, post:
Back to back seasons (Canes to Wasps),
England commitments,
Injuries,
World Cup,
Moving half way around the world.

Genuinely think he’s the real deal.

[Heathen]

So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?

Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.

[Stang]

So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?

Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.

Agreed, but hopeful that Sione may develop into the all round 8. He is a real physical presence and I can see him developing into a more fully capable player.

[wasps]

When did Ash last play/cover hooker?
Has that experiment stopped?

If it hasn't, there's something cool about the idea of having the starting back row as Willis, Young, Carr
And the bench as Johnson, Shields and Vailanu

Johnson covering hooker
Shields covering 2nd row
Vailanu added power


That being said, it certainly detracts from having specialist replacements for 2, 4 and 5

[Raggs]

So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?

Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.

I don't necessarily disagree with your first choice backrow, but I would point out that from the 6 tries scored in those two time periods (first 20 vs quins, 2nd half bristol), Willis was on the pitch for 6, Carr for 4, Young for 3. Vailanu was on the pitch for 5 of them.

The 2nd half of against Bristol saw Young on the pitch for the 1st 10 minutes, and then replaced by Vailanu.

So again, whilst I think your first choice backrow may be mine too, I don't think picking out those time periods does anything to really back your assessment. It could be we're both very wrong looking at the facts.

[Steve from Cov]

So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?

Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.

Agreed, but hopeful that Sione may develop into the all round 8. He is a real physical presence and I can see him developing into a more fully capable player.

I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out. I thought Luke Pearce was going to penalise him. Was he lucky?

[AKWasp]

So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?

Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.

Agreed, but hopeful that Sione may develop into the all round 8. He is a real physical presence and I can see him developing into a more fully capable player.

I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out. I thought Luke Pearce was going to penalise him. Was he lucky?

I saw that too definitely feel like we got away with one but probably deserved a bit of luck considering the penalty that put us behind.

Still quite young and hasn’t played a lot of prem rugby so plenty of time to build up that experience and improve as a player. His raw attributes and talent suggest that he has a chance to be a top quality player.

[baldpaul101]

I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out

I don't agree, I think the reason he ends up on the floor so quickly is that the person he was aiming at moved away and didn't actually join the ruck, therefore leaving Vailanu with no one to make contact with.
Was he lucky? Maybe as you do see these circumstances penalised but for me, he does nothing wrong.

[Chunky24]

I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out

I don't agree, I think the reason he ends up on the floor so quickly is that the person he was aiming at moved away and didn't actually join the ruck, therefore leaving Vailanu with no one to make contact with.
Was he lucky? Maybe as you do see these circumstances penalised but for me, he does nothing wrong.

Think there was also no ruck as Pearce called not held and Jimmy got up and scrambled a few more yards. Vailanu could have been done for obstruction if he had made contact with the Bears player but as BP says that player moved away probably trying to milk the off the feet penalty at the ruck he thought was going to happen whereas if he had let Vailanu make contact it probably would have been an obstruction penalty!

[Raggs]

I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out

I don't agree, I think the reason he ends up on the floor so quickly is that the person he was aiming at moved away and didn't actually join the ruck, therefore leaving Vailanu with no one to make contact with.
Was he lucky? Maybe as you do see these circumstances penalised but for me, he does nothing wrong.

Think there was also no ruck as Pearce called not held and Jimmy got up and scrambled a few more yards. Vailanu could have been done for obstruction if he had made contact with the Bears player but as BP says that player moved away probably trying to milk the off the feet penalty at the ruck he thought was going to happen whereas if he had let Vailanu make contact it probably would have been an obstruction penalty!

Had Vailanu not done that, and not forced the Bris player to dodge out the way quickly, it would have likely been called a tackle, and we'd have been either pinged for 2nd movement, or had a much slower ruck and less disrupted defence.

It was risky, and could have gone against us, but thankfully it didn't.