Always a Wasp

Author Topic: 'They got caught but didn't even apologise': Daily Telegraph today and tomorrow.  (Read 12208 times)

WickedWasp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
So pleased for Daly.

WickedWasp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
And Stephen Jones for that matter. He might want to take a long holiday and go quiet. Maybe do us a favour and retire from journalism.

MarleyWasp

  • Guest
My son (far more knowledgeable than me) tells me regulations were introduced last season so that, in order to be promoted from the championship, a team needs to show compliance with the salary cap for 2 seasons - the season of promotion and the season prior.

He seems to think that the EAs will therefore be in the championship for at least 2 seasons. Can anyone confirm (or counter) this?

Taken from the full salary cap documentation for 18/19 season

Quote
"Promoted Club" means any rugby union football club who in the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year wins promotion from the Championship, being the league in the English Clubs'
championship operating immediately under the [Aviva] Premiership;


Quote
15.2 A Promoted Club shall provide copies of its Declaration for the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year and
its Certification for the 2017-18 Salary Cap Year as required under Regulations 4.2 and 4.3.
Sections 4.2 and 4.3 are the regulations about being under salary cap etc.

So, when Bristol were promoted at the end of 18/19, they had to prove to the salary cap manager that they were below the cap that season, and the season before as well to be eligible to join the premiership


Therefore, assuming the law is still the same, at the end of 20/21, Saracens would need to prove that they were below the premiership salary cap that year, and also below it in 19/20 - i.e. this year


Wow!

My reading of this says that the side who finishes top this season has to prove they are compliant this season, last season and the season before.

On that basis, Saracens are looking at 3 seasons in the Championship.

Neils

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14758
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
So if I read correctly they were asked to open up the books completely or be relegated. They chose relegation so what the hell were they covering up that relegation is preferable?
Let me tell you something cucumber

hookender

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4035
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
 if i were HMRC i think i would be interested in looking at their books too

Westy68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1001
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Finally Saracens get a penalty that’s somewhere near justifying the severity of their crimes.  Just annoyed it’s taken so long but if you’re threatened with legal action all the time, it obviously needed a 3rd party to bring it to ahead.

I personally have no problem seeing Sarries Disappear into the dark depths of the rugby league for many years. They have been a disgraceful club for so many years, deserving everything they get. I just hope the league doesn’t change any laws to allow Saracens a quick return to the premiership.

The amount of times Saracens supporters came onto the wasps site saying it was just Jealousy if we questioned the squad. Players were happy to except less wages to play for a club that looked after its players and won trophies. The semi final we lost to them with the great and exciting team we had.

I believe we would have won the premiership if it wasn’t for Sarries and most probably kept the squad together for longer.

Why are Sarries still allowed to keep the squad together?

RBB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • It’s like trying to tackle a snooker table!
    • View Profile
Some interesting things that will need to be sorted out;

Sponsorship  - Allianz will almost certainly want out, as will other key sponsors.
Spurs - will the use of the stadium continue and are they locked in? What is the get out clause on a 5 year deal. I cannot see Daniel Levy at Spurs being a soft touch?
Council - they have a massive loan from LB of Barnet to develop the facilities, what will happen there? https://www.times-series.co.uk/news/17194581.fears-over-barnet-councils-rugby-club-loan/, according to the article they also owe 45m elsewhere, probably Wray incorporated.

They have massive structural problems now, as their reputation is shot to pieces, in effect a toxic brand. Their financial position will be battered and the arrogance of some of their support that they will glide back to their former position is laughable. This is a disaster for everyone involved in the club , the EAs will have to start again, bottom up approach and revisit the whole ethos and operating model.

This sorry affair is saddening, as it has taken all eyes of the good things about our game and once again the EAs dominate, this time for the wrong reasons.
It was fine when I left it.....

MarleyWasp

  • Guest
I suspect they will probably attempt a rebrand at some point with the Saracens name now being toxic.

They own a stake in the Mavericks Super League Netball team, so maybe London Mavericks?

coddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1353
  • Wasps Rugby Supporter
    • View Profile
It's not saddening for me. Quite the opposite in fact, it's shown that cheats don't prosper and the PRL are very serious about keeping the league as competitive as possible for all the club's in the Premiership.

Neils

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14758
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
I would suggest it is not the PRL organisation but the owners group. There needs to be a thorough rethink in how PRL is supposed to work and monitor. It won't be but it should be more open so others (good journalists) can ask questions AND get answers.
Let me tell you something cucumber

BG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1559
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
PRL is run on behalf of the PRL share holders. For some reason PRL decided to turn a blind eye to what was blatantly obvious and the shareholders finally kicked up a fuss.

If Sarries can't be promoted for 1 or perhaps 2 seasons that opens up the possibilty that their PRL shares can be bought by the other 12 clubs.

 

Mellie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
I pulled up at traffic lights near Harpenden yesterday behind an Aston Martin Vantage with a Saracens sticker in the back window. I wondered if it was a co-investment.

It turned left at the next junction without signalling. So typical Sarries behaviour there as obviously above the law 😁

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile

I'm still a little confused.

Are Saracens over the cap because of actual genuine salaries to players, or because of co-investments and other hidden goodies?

We know that they have been found guilty of being more than £650k over the cap for the last 2 years, and that the previous season they were over the cap, but by less than £650k.
But is that for salaries alone, or with the additional naughty bonuses?


There's some stuff on social media suggesting that it's just the base salaries.
so that either means that for the last 3 years the salary cap manager has had a piece of paper from Saracens saying that they're way over the cap and they've done with that information.... or that Saracens have been sending the salary cap manager a blatant forgery.



Daeg

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile

InBetweenWasp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile

I'm still a little confused.

Are Saracens over the cap because of actual genuine salaries to players, or because of co-investments and other hidden goodies?

We know that they have been found guilty of being more than £650k over the cap for the last 2 years, and that the previous season they were over the cap, but by less than £650k.
But is that for salaries alone, or with the additional naughty bonuses?


There's some stuff on social media suggesting that it's just the base salaries.
so that either means that for the last 3 years the salary cap manager has had a piece of paper from Saracens saying that they're way over the cap and they've done with that information.... or that Saracens have been sending the salary cap manager a blatant forgery.

JB on Eggchasers suggesting that it’s not base salaries at all and is roughly in line with Stephen Jones’ thoughts which are:

- That the co-investments were legitimate commercial co-investments and not ‘gifting’ of monies and therefore that applying them to the salary cap is harsh - What happens is that it gets aggregated across contact length - i.e. Farrell signs a new contract in 2017 for 3 years and in 2017 goes 50/50 with Wray on a £600k house.  The £300k that Wray puts in has, or was in theory then calculated as an additional £100k onto the salary cap for each of the 3 years of that contractual period

I’d agree with this if there was a mechanism to ensure that the non-player part of the co-investment doesn’t get handed over, or gifted at a later date.  If it’s an entirely legitimate commercial agreement, then I personally don’t have an issue with it - The player only benefits proportionately to the investment they personally make.

- That one particular player sold 100% of their image rights to Wray.  Wray then re-sold the image rights to third parties, keeping any profit from the value paid to the player and the amount charged to people looking to use that players image.  Apparently (according to JB) Wray had the value independently verified by a third party, but PRL disagrees with that independent valuation by around £800k (which PRL subsequently deemed as being part of the Salary costs)

I do have an issue with this, as the player wouldn’t have had a lump sum otherwise.  Equally, what’s to stop Wray selling the rights back to that player at below a market rate.

The reality is, none of us really know as nothing has been published.  If these were the two issues causing a significant cap breach then in theory, it seems likes PRL may well have been a bit over-zealous (in my opinion at least).

That Sarries are refusing to open their books suggests there is more to hide.  You’d think that if they didn’t have much to hide that they would try and salvage part of their reputation by being open/transparent,