Always a Wasp

Author Topic: It is being released [allegedly]  (Read 8237 times)

AKWasp

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2020, 12:44:46 AM »
The sky article was a little underwhelming but with relegation being preferred to a forensic audit, it’s clear that there’s lots more that we may never find out.

They also have very vague detail despite seeing 103 pages of the report so it may only be the easily digestible headlines that got published.

Despite the ‘non-deliberate’ claims that keep being brought up, Itoje being paid £30k a year for appearances that he didn’t make by a catering company based at Saracens and owned by Nigel Wray’s daughter (who I believe is a director at the club) really doesn’t seem accidental.

I believe that probably has been happening across the club and that system should be enough to persuade everyone (including Brendan Venter) that there were deliberate actions taken to pay players outside the cap.

And if anyone sees the figure of £1m being the ‘largest’ breach quoted and thinks it’s not actually that much. It’s 50x what we were caught and admitted fault for and is 14% more than what they should be paying.

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 07:02:30 AM »
I'd need a proper read to be sure, but the numbers Sky are quoting don't seem to add up.
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RogerE

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 07:40:47 AM »
Here it is:

The full detail of the salary cap breaches which resulted in Saracens being relegated from the Premiership are laid bare in a 103-page report obtained by Sky News.

Saracens, the club that has won rugby union's Premiership in four of the last five seasons, had already been docked 35 points and fined £5.3m last November for breaking Premiership Rugby's £7m salary cap.

But the news this week that they are to be relegated to the Championship at the end of this season has sent English rugby spinning on its axis, with the future of some of their biggest stars, including England captain Owen Farrell, shrouded in uncertainty.

Now, we can reveal the exact details of the breaches which led to an unprecedented punishment in British sport, with the most significant breaking of the rules concerning joint property ventures involving England stars Maro Itoje, Billy and Mako Vunipola and former England player Chris Ashton.

The disciplinary panel, led by Lord Dyson, accepted that Saracens' breaches of the regulations were "not deliberate" and had advised against their relegation, believing it would be a disproportionate punishment.

But they did find that the club had broken the rules on several occasions with the charges ranging in value from £511.92 to £800,000.

There is no suggestion or evidence that any player was complicit in any of the club's actions.

Saracens were found to have breached the salary cap in three consecutive seasons.

In 2016-17 the overspend was more than £1.1m, in 2017-18 it was just over £98,000 and in 2018-19 it was £906,000.

Saracens owner Nigel Wray, who resigned as club chairman earlier this month, was found to have made payments totalling £1.3m by entering into property joint ventures with players.

He made a £450,000 investment in a company majority-owned by brothers Billy and Mako Vunipola, who were both part of the England squad at the World Cup in Japan last year.

Richard Wigglesworth, who has played for Saracens since 2010, and Wray made a co-investment of £220,000 in his company, while the investment in Itoje's company was £250,000.

Property investments

In the case of the Vunipolas, a house was bought by a company known as Vuniprop, funded 66% by the Vunipolas and 33% by an interest free loan by Wray.

Renovation costs were also loaned, interest free, by the chairman.

It is understood that Saracens' defence was that Wray considered these payments to be equity investments and that profits, or indeed losses, would be shared equally between all parties.

In his witness statement, Wray said these payments were "bona fide commercial transactions with a number of players based on the merit of those investments, not, as PRL (Premiership Rugby Limited) suggests, in order to provide an additional reward to players for playing their rugby at the club."

Itoje hospitality contract

Another charge was that England and Saracens lock Itoje, one of the biggest stars in the game, was paid a lump sum for three years of £30,000, £30,000, £35,000 by a company based at Saracens which did all the hospitality at their Allianz Park ground and was run by the chairman's daughter, Lucy Wray.

The report noted that there was no evidence Itoje had attended any hospitality events and was not paid on a per-event basis, meaning it was a salary benefit and not a commercial arrangement.

Saracens would say, however, that this was a commercial arrangement by an independent company, similar to ones they have with lots of current and former players.

Buying a house with Ashton

Saracens were also found to have breached the salary cap by £319,600.76 with regard to a property bought by a former player Chris Ashton.

The report, compiled by Sport Resolutions, a specialist independent dispute service, noted that Ashton paid 80% towards a house worth £1.4m, while Wray and another director paid 20% towards the property.

The suggestion was that this was a benefit and equivalent to salary in kind.

But Saracens' defence is understood to have been that he left the club shortly after this property was bought, meaning it could not have been a benefit for playing Saracens.

Itoje image rights

The report also notes a salary cap breach with regards to what they said was an overspend of £871,000 by Wray and two other directors buying shares in Itoje's image rights company.

They paid £1.6m for a 30% stake in Itoje's image rights company, based on a valuation by PwC.

But Premiership Rugby said the shares were only worth £800,000 based on a valuation by a different accountancy firm.

Premiership Rugby said Saracens overpaid Itoje's image rights because he was being underpaid in normal salary so the club could come in under the salary cap.

It is understood that Saracens explored the option of appealing against the initial ruling in November, which led to a £5.3m fine and deduction of 35 points.

It is thought the club did not resist an investigative audit at the end of this season but they did resist a three-year retrospective audit on the grounds that it would be unfair - in the club's view - if the same scrutiny wasn't applied to every Premiership club.

The panel advised against the relegation of Saracens and noted in their decision.

It said: "We accept that the breaches were not deliberate, but in our view they were reckless. We consider that to impose a deduction of 70 points in one salary cap year is disproportionate and is not required to satisfy the underlying purpose of the relegations."

Saracens had called for the report to be made public after Premiership Rugby initially said that the club had requested it be kept under wraps.

"Premiership Rugby welcomes Saracens' decision to withdraw its previous objection to publication of Lord Dyson's decision," a spokesperson said.

"These objections were stated in the strongest terms and in writing on behalf of the club by its lawyers.

"We believe that publication of the decision in respect of Saracens' past breaches of the salary cap is an important step towards upholding trust in our enforcement of the regulations and the disciplinary process."

Neils

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2020, 07:55:55 AM »
I wonder which part of the EA organisation leaked this edited precis to Sky. Their attitude is to get their story in first. I understood that no-one was allowed to take notes or photographs of the Report thus it must have come from them who would have a copy for legal reasons.
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Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2020, 08:03:15 AM »
So if we're going down the complete transparencybroute we now need to know what the deal was a few years ago when they were first found guilty. And if it was the same thing then we'll know this is nothing more than deliberately ignoring the rules.

I agree it reads like Sarries leaked it.
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wasps

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2020, 08:09:31 AM »

16/17 £1.1m over the cap
17/18 £100k over
18/19 £900k over

So what happened at the start of 17/18 to bring them so close to the cap?

They signed Liam Williams and will Skelton at that time, but also released Chris Ashton, Kelly brown, Jim Hamilton, Neil de Kock amongst others.

I can see that would reduce their salary bill somewhat.


The result of that squad trimming was that they finished 2nd in the league (by 8 points), although went on to win the play offs.
They also didn't win the European cup.

So, following year, pay an extra £900k and win everything.

Goes to show that they don't win as much if they don't cheat as much

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2020, 08:20:52 AM »
It'll be interesting to see how the official release from PRL differs in detail and in tone.
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Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2020, 08:29:43 AM »
Quote
In 2016-17 the overspend was more than £1.1m, in 2017-18 it was just over £98,000 and in 2018-19 it was £906,000.

This totals £2,104,000. However these figures

Quote
He made a £450,000 investment in a company majority-owned by brothers Billy and Mako Vunipola, who were both part of the England squad at the World Cup in Japan last year.

Richard Wigglesworth, who has played for Saracens since 2010, and Wray made a co-investment of £220,000 in his company, while the investment in Itoje's company was £250,000.

Another charge was that England and Saracens lock Itoje, one of the biggest stars in the game, was paid a lump sum for three years of £30,000, £30,000, £35,000 by a company based at Saracens which did all the hospitality at their Allianz Park ground and was run by the chairman's daughter, Lucy Wray.

Saracens were also found to have breached the salary cap by £319,600.76 with regard to a property bought by a former player Chris Ashton.

The report also notes a salary cap breach with regards to what they said was an overspend of £871,000 by Wray and two other directors buying shares in Itoje's image rights company.

Total £2,205,600.76 which would suggest that if we remove the property co-investments Sarries were actually under the cap by over £100,000

I find this hard to believe.

I would suggest this version of events is not strictly accurate.
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mike909

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2020, 09:19:35 AM »
I find it hard to believe that so many top internationals might all be playing for the club for "The Honour" rather than cash.

Before Williams leaves - you could argue that they had at least 8+ of a Lions 23 were it to be selected here and now, alongside other from outside B&I on a scale that no other club could near match.

Mellie

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2020, 06:24:05 PM »
Saw this article about Sarries hoping to retain their top players.
https://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/rugby-union/england/news/saracens-stars-set-to-stay-at-club-after-reassurances-over-international-futures_387100.html

I'm not sure how they can do that and still be compliant though.

wasps

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2020, 08:30:05 PM »
From what I've read about the report, and that of Nigel Wray's post on the Saracens site, everything that was deemed additional salary is stuff from outside of Saracens.

It's either Nigel Wray's personal money, that if another of his businesses, or that of businesses owned by his family.


So what are we expecting to see if Saracens were to have an audit of their books?

By the sounds of it, they've never officially gone over the cap, and if Nigel is s shrewd as we believe he is, he wouldn't let anything go through the official accounts.


Surely the official Saracens accounts will just show the salaries that everyone is on which will tie in exactly with what Saracens send the PRL every year.

What is everyone expecting / hoping to see?

mike909

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2020, 09:08:22 PM »
From The Guardian - not sure if this is already on another post

Quote
For a club with honesty and humility plastered across the top of their main stand, the report also shows Saracens’ curious struggle to differentiate between the letter and the spirit of the law. Saracens argued that the salary cap manager, Andrew Rogers, failed to make a proper distinction between sham loans and genuine ones.

Rogers’ response cuts to the heart of this whole dispiriting business. “None of the arrangements would have been made … if it were not for the fact that they were Saracens players. The arrangements are designed to provide additional reward for playing for Saracens. There has been a concerted and deliberate attempt to create structures that supposedly take that reward outside the ambit of salary, for the purposes of the regulations.”

My bold

MarleyWasp

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2020, 10:05:36 PM »
Saracens admitted an overspend of £71,505.57 for the 2018/19 season.


InBetweenWasp

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2020, 08:57:59 AM »
Saw this article about Sarries hoping to retain their top players.
https://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/rugby-union/england/news/saracens-stars-set-to-stay-at-club-after-reassurances-over-international-futures_387100.html

I'm not sure how they can do that and still be compliant though.

Because it wasn’t about inflated wages, it was about one-off off-the-books transactions to make up for lower contractual salaries.  So if they don’t make any outside one-off type payments, they’re not over.

However, that means that when these highly paid players (with their additional renumeration outside of Salary) are up for contract renewal they’ll either:

- Need to take an overall pay cut and accept their standard salary with the outside payments having been stopped
- Saracens will need to pay them close to, or at market-value to keep them (and thus squeeze other players out of their cap or reduce their wages to accommodate)
- They’ll leave

DGP Wasp

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Re: It is being released [allegedly]
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2020, 09:03:55 AM »
- Saracens will need to pay them close to, or at market-value to keep them (and thus squeeze other players out of their cap or reduce their wages to accommodate)
- They’ll leave

Exactly the conundrum that all other clubs are faced with year in, year out, and why the rest of the club owners saw fit to kick them out.