Marler & Lawes Cited

[Rossm]

England's Joe Marler and Courtney Lawes have been cited following Saturday's Six Nations win over Wales.

Prop Marler, 29, grabbed Alun Wyn Jones' genitals during the first half at Twickenham, with the Wales captain calling for action after the match.

Lock Lawes, 31, was cited for a dangerous tackle during his side's 33-30 victory.

The pair will appear before a disciplinary hearing in Dublin on Thursday.

England centre Manu Tuilagi will also be at Thursday's hearing following his red card for a high tackle late in the fixture.

Marler could be in for a long lay-off, with four levels of punishment length under World Rugby rules.

The shortest ban for "grabbing, twisting or squeezing the genitals" is 12 weeks, with a top-end level of 24 weeks or more, up to a maximum of 208.

From the BBC.

[DGP Wasp]

Manu is standard after a red.  Would thing he's in line for a few weeks' holiday.
Don't recall the Lawes incident being picked up during commentary so not sure what that's about.

Marler is just a wind up merchant and has had this coming for a while.

In the days before trial by TV and citings, this would have been dealt with on the pitch pretty swiftly and not by the ref.  I was at Twickenham for England v Argentina in 1990 when the young Argentinian prop took objection to something similar and poleaxed Paul Ackford.  Unfortunately it was so blatant that the ref had no choice but to send him off.  Made worse by the fact that Ackford wasn't even the perpetrator! (Think it may have been a certain former Wasps prop)
Back to Marler, with the minimum ban set at 12 weeks and such irrefutable evidence, that could be his season over.  I hardly think he can call upon his previous good character to get his ban reduced.

[Trevs Big Tackle]

What about that "Welshie" with the high tackle on Tuilagi? Has he been cited?

[Old Geezer]

Like you I did not see the alleged Lawes incident.  I thought the Manu red card was controversial to say the least.  LOL commented that it wasn;t even a card before the ref pronounced.   Even if it was a card, the guy was ducking down and Manu didn't even have his eyes on him.  Yellow at worst IMHO.  As for Marler, I don't think it was akin to grabbing someone in the belief it was out of sight and with the intention of causing Jones pain etc and was really more just playful but it was just typically stupid of him and needs to be punished IMHO.  Not good TV for families.

[hookender]

 in mitigation i'm sure Marler will claim it was instead of shaking hands because of the coronavirus pandemic

[Chunky24]

Like you I did not see the alleged Lawes incident.  I thought the Manu red card was controversial to say the least.  LOL commented that it wasn;t even a card before the ref pronounced.   Even if it was a card, the guy was ducking down and Manu didn't even have his eyes on him.  Yellow at worst IMHO.  As for Marler, I don't think it was akin to grabbing someone in the belief it was out of sight and with the intention of causing Jones pain etc and was really more just playful but it was just typically stupid of him and needs to be punished IMHO.  Not good TV for families.

Manu was sent off and there was no mitigation for the height change because it was a shoulder charge not a high tackle, although a welsh newspaper article, thisexplains quite clearly here why the ref was right in his decision making and process.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/unknown-rugby-rule-explains-manu-17886629

[RBB]

Like you I did not see the alleged Lawes incident.  I thought the Manu red card was controversial to say the least.  LOL commented that it wasn;t even a card before the ref pronounced.   Even if it was a card, the guy was ducking down and Manu didn't even have his eyes on him.  Yellow at worst IMHO.  As for Marler, I don't think it was akin to grabbing someone in the belief it was out of sight and with the intention of causing Jones pain etc and was really more just playful but it was just typically stupid of him and needs to be punished IMHO.  Not good TV for families.

Reference to Marler, how as an age grade coach do I explain to kids that what Marler did was okay, I can't. So for me he has to be punished. The entry point is designed to address serious foul play, on this occasion his tomfoolery will be a minimum of 12 weeks, so stupidity prevailed on his part.

Tuilagi's card was justified as he has playing long enough to know better than to lead like that.

Didn't see Laws issue. The Hadleigh Parkes hit on Tuilagi was at the same level as Tuilagi's hit on North, I am amazed, he hasn't been cited.

The issue with all of this is that many of us are all trying to attract youngsters to adopt and enjoy the sport, if parents and children witness this sort of reckless play and ridiculous antics, then the sport becomes less appealing and we impact 'grassroots' rugby which is fundamental to the development of the game, and negativity undoubtedly impacts building future talent.

[WaspsUpNorth]

Totally agree with RBB re Marler & Tuilagi.  Additionally, if the game is to repair itself, rugby authorities should address the "13 v 16" comments by Eddie Jones (the round ball game nowadays would not allow a manager to blatantly question the impartiality of a referee) and ITV should deal appropriately with Gareth Thomas' ludicrous attempt at a joke - those sniggering in the TV studio and elsewhere should actually think about what he said. 

[Skippy]

In real time it looked as though Tuilagi decide to keep his armed pulled in as tried to avoid the diving player. If he hadn’t then it would likely have been a lot worse. Just think for a moment how it would have played out if he’d managed to wrap his arm round in the tackle

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I thought that at the time he was going in hard at waist height, and when he realised North was going down anyway tried to pull out the best he could, but failed miserably.

Penalising someone for a high tackle when they were at hip height seems ridiculous to me.

[ardenwasp]

Marler still has on record a warning for grabbing Hasks scrum cap and squirting him with water in that infamous episode at the Ricoh. If found guilty that incident may finally come back to bite him!

[Shugs]

The thing I find really unsavoury about the whole Marler thing is that he is now using the rugby field to further his media profile. It just adds to his perceived "crazy man" persona he seems intent on creating for himself. I'd ban him for 24 weeks just to remind him the game comes first and it is not merely a vehicle to be controversial and "edgy".

[RBB]

Marler still has on record a warning for grabbing Hasks scrum cap and squirting him with water in that infamous episode at the Ricoh. If found guilty that incident may finally come back to bite him!

I think there is a whole catalogue of misdemeanours that may be referred to, however I am not sure if RFU and World Rugby/6N citing committees are joined up in terms of evidence base for offences and citings. I am sure there is someone on this board that is better informed than me that can validate this one way or another.

[Lwasp]

The problem with the Marler incident, and with current and former players discussions of it as being a bit of banter, is it perpetuates a narrative that to play this team game you have to be willing to tolerate fondling, assault and worse. Listen to Chris Ashton on this week's BBC podcast talk about the number of times another player inserted "with force" their finger in to his bottom. Why would any young lad thinking of playing a sport pick ours listening to that? Danny Care trying to explain that Joe was just being Joe and it happens, then explaining that Exeter had a thing of tapping each other's genitals if they scored a try. Could you have made or stayed on that team if you weren't willing to take part?

Wasps have been guilty of similar in the recent past with the infamous end of season boat trip antics. To not join in or to violently object is to not be part of the team??? I've said it before, the Uni rugby scene was when I stopped playing, one look at them in the union turned me off. And if Marler gets away with this as "a bit of fun" I can only imagine a new generation of players will be turned off too.

[Nigel Med]

Marler is just a prat, nothing more and nothing we didn't already know. He should certainly be made to apologise and perhaps a short ban would serve to make it completely clear that his behaviour is unacceptable. HOWEVER. 12 weeks is ridiculous. The reason why referees are trained to heavily penalise any foul play involving the head- particularly eyes- and genitals is because you can seriously injure someone. Marler didn't injure Wyn Jones and wasn't attempting to. I'm not defending his actions at all but if he receives a ban of the scale you would expect for a deliberate act intended to hurt a player it sets a precedent. What about the playful tap on the head by a player who has just scored on a defender who missed a tackle? Do we want those defenders collapsing on the ground acting like they've been pole-axed? By the letter of the law they've been struck in the head so that's a red card. I've witnessed many Welsh pundits demanding that Marler be severally punished, get over yourselves, it's not going to change the fact that you lost the match. Marler's an idiot, always has been, probably always will be but let's keep a degree of perspective please!