Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Taking the knee v Saints  (Read 8530 times)

13thWarrior

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2020, 11:22:06 AM »
Please don't make me close this thread.

Our club is making an honourable stand against racism.  Despite the flak they have received on Social media they are sticking to their guns and I for one am glad of it.

Whatever your thoughts on the politics behind the BLM organisation, I think now we have to drop it.
Just had a quick scan on Twitter and the replies seem mostly positive of the club.

wycombewasp

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2020, 12:26:59 PM »
could we not start a new trend for anti racist support by taking the EAR, End All Racism and I don't intend that to be funny  because there is racism throughout the world and not just against people of African decent which I'm sure your all aware of.       
I'm sure many people are uncomfortable taking the Knee because of its links to 1 Marxists 2 a very violent man who threatened a pregnant women by holding a gun to her womb.
I for one would have no problem with taking the EAR but not the Knee   

Neils

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2020, 12:36:51 PM »
could we not start a new trend for anti racist support by taking the EAR, End All Racism and I don't intend that to be funny  because there is racism throughout the world and not just against people of African decent which I'm sure your all aware of.       
I'm sure many people are uncomfortable taking the Knee because of its links to 1 Marxists 2 a very violent man who threatened a pregnant women by holding a gun to her womb.
I for one would have no problem with taking the EAR but not the Knee

Why not stand silently with a Rugby Against Racism T Shirt - as others will do this weekend.  I always thought the "knee" was a mark of subjection but each to his own.

Let me tell you something cucumber

Willie

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2020, 12:43:59 PM »
At the heart of it, it’s a sad reflection of our society that it’s necessary to highlight an issue like racism, in any way, for any reason. But here we are.

I do think ‘taking a knee’ in the UK (before sports events) is slightly incongruous, compared to the situation in the US. In America the Star Spangled Banner is played before each game as a display of nationalistic pride, and players are expected, as ‘true patriots’, to stand. Colin Kaepernick originally sat this out, stating “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.”. Taking a knee was a later compromise, to show respect to former and current U.S. military members. I don’t believe we force, or endorse, that same jingoistic culture into our sporting events, so I’m not convinced it’s necessary for ‘sport’ to respond to the crappy aspects of our society in quite the same way.

That said, saying ‘keep politics out of sport’ is like saying keep humanity out of sport. Every societal interaction is political to some extent.  Only extremely privileged people never have to engage with ‘politics’. And there are plenty of examples of ‘clearly good’ political stances in our sport that we happily accept, just because some issues are more ‘difficult’, it doesn’t mean they are any less valid. 

Whatever certain people make of BLM, or particular unsavoury members (there is no 'membership'), I think it’s only fair for us to assume that other people (club and players) have the intelligence and autonomy to decide what their own statements and actions mean for them personally. Let’s give them some credit. If you don’t agree with how other people use their voice, well tough, that’s how civil societies work.

I don’t know who is in charge of club policy and statements, but I’m very impressed with the level of reason and rationality. A position that is clearly well thought out and considered is a lot easier to respect, even if one doesn’t agree entirely. It seems to me that the players, Clubs and sport are displaying a pretty good reflection of the attitudes and respectfulness that is the reality in our wider society. Let's not get dragged into believing that extremes are in any way representative of the whole.

.

WonkyWasp

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2020, 12:51:16 PM »
Neils .... + 1.

Tervueren

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2020, 01:02:02 PM »
I think taking the knee was a mark of subjugation, well when Martin Luther King jr did it in 1965  it was subjugation before God in prayer before heading off to an Alabama jail, but the meaning of anything can change over time and IMO is is now being used as a symbol of solidarity.

The are are unsavoury supporters of BLM, as there are with many a cause, but by supporting this now we marginalise the nasty elements rather than leaving the cause to them.

It does seem so sad that in 2020 we need to campaign on this.

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2020, 04:41:03 PM »
I don’t know who is in charge of club policy and statements, but I’m very impressed with the level of reason and rationality. A position that is clearly well thought out and considered is a lot easier to respect, even if one doesn’t agree entirely. It seems to me that the players, Clubs and sport are displaying a pretty good reflection of the attitudes and respectfulness that is the reality in our wider society. Let's not get dragged into believing that extremes are in any way representative of the whole.

I believe that since lockdown it has mainly been Adam Benson who Steve Vaughan brought from Gloucester to be Chief Commercial Officer.
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13thWarrior

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2020, 05:27:24 PM »
At the heart of it, it’s a sad reflection of our society that it’s necessary to highlight an issue like racism, in any way, for any reason. But here we are.

I do think ‘taking a knee’ in the UK (before sports events) is slightly incongruous, compared to the situation in the US. In America the Star Spangled Banner is played before each game as a display of nationalistic pride, and players are expected, as ‘true patriots’, to stand. Colin Kaepernick originally sat this out, stating “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.”. Taking a knee was a later compromise, to show respect to former and current U.S. military members. I don’t believe we force, or endorse, that same jingoistic culture into our sporting events, so I’m not convinced it’s necessary for ‘sport’ to respond to the crappy aspects of our society in quite the same way.

That said, saying ‘keep politics out of sport’ is like saying keep humanity out of sport. Every societal interaction is political to some extent.  Only extremely privileged people never have to engage with ‘politics’. And there are plenty of examples of ‘clearly good’ political stances in our sport that we happily accept, just because some issues are more ‘difficult’, it doesn’t mean they are any less valid. 

Whatever certain people make of BLM, or particular unsavoury members (there is no 'membership'), I think it’s only fair for us to assume that other people (club and players) have the intelligence and autonomy to decide what their own statements and actions mean for them personally. Let’s give them some credit. If you don’t agree with how other people use their voice, well tough, that’s how civil societies work.

I don’t know who is in charge of club policy and statements, but I’m very impressed with the level of reason and rationality. A position that is clearly well thought out and considered is a lot easier to respect, even if one doesn’t agree entirely. It seems to me that the players, Clubs and sport are displaying a pretty good reflection of the attitudes and respectfulness that is the reality in our wider society. Let's not get dragged into believing that extremes are in any way representative of the whole.

.
Well said

Chilham

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2020, 07:03:51 PM »
Why not stand silently with a Rugby Against Racism T Shirt...

Because that's worked so well in the past.

13thWarrior

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Re: Taking the knee v Saints
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2020, 08:55:57 PM »
So Sale wore Rugby Against Racism shirts, and some knelt too, while Quins formed a circle and all knelt. In case anyone was curious about the diversity of expressions of support.