Latest Govt Statement and impact on professional rugby

[Raggs]

Would help if the UK took a more 'learn to live with it approach', much like France, US etc... They locked down once, it worked, they patted themselves on the back and several weeks later they are back at ground zero. They must realize that this is not going away and adjustments in life need to be made not blanket rulings, otherwise these clubs and businesses will disappear and in 6 months having patted themselves on the back again they'll be a ground zero.

I'm currently living in the US and for all its problems, its decided that restrictions don't work and people will be people and we need to accept where we are. This weekend my local college football season starts with a reduced gate of 24k, acknowledging that ruin follows no income yet the virus situation won't change. We also just started the college year, with 50k students! Having done very little the US count is still stable..

I'm seriously worried now, Wasps business model is the anti of our current situation.

The US model has them with basically the highest death rate in the western world, and still steadily climbing.

Highest death rate ANYWHERE in the world.

Using Trumps USA as a shining light of how to deal with Coronavirus is akin to advocating Hitler's methods of subduing Semites.

Highest death numbers, not rate though. Still below small countries like Belgium, quite a few South American countries hit harder too.

EDIT - Neils, under Trump (and very much in line with his ads and his own words), we're seeing a huge amount of racial tension, we're seeing families separated, children being kept in cages and basically lost from their family. We're seeing sterilizations of those same immigrants too.

[Trevs Big Tackle]

Hitler was elected too...

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I know there are strong feelings on a lot of these issues, but please let's try to keep it civil.

Comparisons with Nazis never end well.

[Hymenoptera]

Would help if the UK took a more 'learn to live with it approach', much like France, US etc... They locked down once, it worked, they patted themselves on the back and several weeks later they are back at ground zero. They must realize that this is not going away and adjustments in life need to be made not blanket rulings, otherwise these clubs and businesses will disappear and in 6 months having patted themselves on the back again they'll be a ground zero.

I'm currently living in the US and for all its problems, its decided that restrictions don't work and people will be people and we need to accept where we are. This weekend my local college football season starts with a reduced gate of 24k, acknowledging that ruin follows no income yet the virus situation won't change. We also just started the college year, with 50k students! Having done very little the US count is still stable..

I'm seriously worried now, Wasps business model is the anti of our current situation.

The US model has them with basically the highest death rate in the western world, and still steadily climbing.

Raggs, as the purveyor of everything Covid and self claimer that everything is easy to look up,  I suggest you redo the maths UK has a higher death rate.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Would help if the UK took a more 'learn to live with it approach', much like France, US etc... They locked down once, it worked, they patted themselves on the back and several weeks later they are back at ground zero. They must realize that this is not going away and adjustments in life need to be made not blanket rulings, otherwise these clubs and businesses will disappear and in 6 months having patted themselves on the back again they'll be a ground zero.

I'm currently living in the US and for all its problems, its decided that restrictions don't work and people will be people and we need to accept where we are. This weekend my local college football season starts with a reduced gate of 24k, acknowledging that ruin follows no income yet the virus situation won't change. We also just started the college year, with 50k students! Having done very little the US count is still stable..

I'm seriously worried now, Wasps business model is the anti of our current situation.

I think we are going to have to learn to live with this.  We can't put our lives and our livelihoods on hold indefinitely.

Some of the rhetoric from the government this week has been alarmist and is not borne out by their own figures.  50K cases a day by October was what we were told if we continue to double every 7 days, but we are NOT currently doubling every 7 days, more like every 18-19 days, but inevitably this is the headline that all the media outlets lapped up.  And we are being taken for fools if we are expected to believe that significantly increased testing is not a major factor in an increase in confirmed cases.  Testing is currently at more than 10 times the level it was in April yet we are still finding fewer cases than at the spring peak.  Estimates put the true peak daily figure from April in excess of 100K, had sufficent testing been in place at the time to detect more of them.  The familiar curve we keep being show with current levels approaching those of early April fails to make any adjustment for this.  If this was factored in then the curve for cases would be far more closely aligned with that for hospital cases and deaths, and far less cause for alarm.  Data by region still shows that urban areas of Northern England, the Midlands and Wales account for a significant proportion of the increase, while much of the South remains stable or even in decline, yet these measures are now being rolled out nationwide.   I fear that when we reflect on this period in years to come we may see that the long term impact on social and economic well being, education and health will far outweigh any short term health benefits we may see in the coming months.

Todays reported figures are roughly double that of 8 days ago.

[Raggs]

Raggs, as the purveyor of everything Covid and self claimer that everything is easy to look up,  I suggest you redo the maths UK has a higher death rate.

How are we doing death rate? I'm doing it per million population, since it's impossible to know just how many cases are out there, especially early on when testing wasn't up and running.

[Hymenoptera]

Raggs, as the purveyor of everything Covid and self claimer that everything is easy to look up,  I suggest you redo the maths UK has a higher death rate.

How are we doing death rate? I'm doing it per million population, since it's impossible to know just how many cases are out there, especially early on when testing wasn't up and running.

Yes, per million, Uk is higher than the US...as you can clearly see.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Raggs, as the purveyor of everything Covid and self claimer that everything is easy to look up,  I suggest you redo the maths UK has a higher death rate.

How are we doing death rate? I'm doing it per million population, since it's impossible to know just how many cases are out there, especially early on when testing wasn't up and running.

Yes, per million, Uk is higher than the US...as you can clearly see.

Where are uou getting your figures from?

[Raggs]

I'm using worldometers, could well be other places have different numbers (maybe more accurate). In which case, they may not be ahead just yet, but give them another week.

[Hymenoptera]

So back to my original statement before everyone got all political.
Given the US has a huge % of ludites, has all its restaurants, bars, cinema's...basically everything is open and has been for months, no restrictions in place anywhere, 50-100k students all converging, allows tens of thousands into sports venues..you'd expect the difference to be exponential and rising, when in fact its neither, cases have trended down and flattened at around 49k per day.
My point is, whats the point of all the pain to only be back where you started next time you open up, its a vicious circle with no winner. Is the alternative that much worse to the present, the above tells me its not.

[Hymenoptera]

I'm using worldometers, could well be other places have different numbers (maybe more accurate). In which case, they may not be ahead just yet, but give them another week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+numbers+usa&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS879US879&oq=covid&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0l4j69i60l3.1615j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on
Regardless of where you get them, a 5 sec simple math task will show you that your statement is wrong and regardless is close enough that it can't be used to support any argumentative case.

[BG]

Blimey.. 1 week without Wasps rugby ..

Despite the rain today.. I think I caught my 2nd mole.. I won't know until Friday morning.. just in case Adrian is playing games with me.. again... I'm going to leave things be for another day

[Vespula Vulgaris]

So back to my original statement before everyone got all political.
Given the US has a huge % of ludites, has all its restaurants, bars, cinema's...basically everything is open and has been for months, no restrictions in place anywhere, 50-100k students all converging, allows tens of thousands into sports venues..you'd expect the difference to be exponential and rising, when in fact its neither, cases have trended down and flattened at around 49k per day.
My point is, whats the point of all the pain to only be back where you started next time you open up, its a vicious circle with no winner. Is the alternative that much worse to the present, the above tells me its not.

Sadly it's not that simple. Numbers alone don't tell you anything. You need to take into consideration population age, ethnicity mix, density, lifestyle and more. The fact that the UK and the US have figures anything like close is a damning indictment of the US policies as we are vastly more densely confined than them.

[Raggs]

I'm using worldometers, could well be other places have different numbers (maybe more accurate). In which case, they may not be ahead just yet, but give them another week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+numbers+usa&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS879US879&oq=covid&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0l4j69i60l3.1615j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on
Regardless of where you get them, a 5 sec simple math task will show you that your statement is wrong and regardless is close enough that it can't be used to support any argumentative case.

Clearly it does matter where you get them, because if you get them from here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

The USA is ahead...

The USA also still has ongoing measures, but they're only being done half heartedly, which is why they remain at a very high level of cases and deaths.

They also started their curve later than the UK.

Personally I don't think consistently high death rate is particularly good. There's still no evidence of them slowing down. Yes, their case numbers have dropped. Oddly enough, that drop coincides with the White House removing the CDC from data collation process, and bringing it all in house.

They have just had their worst quarter on record, and it was a bad one.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/30/economy/us-economy-2020-second-quarter/index.html

So there's hardly any argument for their economical advantage in the route they've taken either.

Basically it's mostly been half arsed, and the results are showing for that. Given all the numbers now go through the whitehouse and no longer the CDC, I'd not be surprised to see further improvement, right up until November. Then after the elections, a correction may be incoming...

The USA had months more to start reacting to this, especially given their large population, and did basically nothing useful.

As someone cleverer than me wrote.

Covid spread is mostly based on two things:
1. How dense the population is.
2. How dense the population is.

[Hymenoptera]

I'm using worldometers, could well be other places have different numbers (maybe more accurate). In which case, they may not be ahead just yet, but give them another week.

https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+numbers+usa&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS879US879&oq=covid&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0l4j69i60l3.1615j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on
Regardless of where you get them, a 5 sec simple math task will show you that your statement is wrong and regardless is close enough that it can't be used to support any argumentative case.

Clearly it does matter where you get them, because if you get them from here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

The USA is ahead...

The USA also still has ongoing measures, but they're only being done half heartedly, which is why they remain at a very high level of cases and deaths.

They also started their curve later than the UK.

Personally I don't think consistently high death rate is particularly good. There's still no evidence of them slowing down. Yes, their case numbers have dropped. Oddly enough, that drop coincides with the White House removing the CDC from data collation process, and bringing it all in house.

They have just had their worst quarter on record, and it was a bad one.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/30/economy/us-economy-2020-second-quarter/index.html

So there's hardly any argument for their economical advantage in the route they've taken either.

Basically it's mostly been half arsed, and the results are showing for that. Given all the numbers now go through the whitehouse and no longer the CDC, I'd not be surprised to see further improvement, right up until November. Then after the elections, a correction may be incoming...

The USA had months more to start reacting to this, especially given their large population, and did basically nothing useful.

As someone cleverer than me wrote.

Covid spread is mostly based on two things:
1. How dense the population is.
2. How dense the population is.

Thats a long winded way to divert from your original statement, The US model has them with basically the highest death rate in the western world Its just incorrect. Also, given even using your dataset, showing a difference +6 cases per million to the UK, its a crazy statement to stand behind. It matters not how any country lands where it has, that isn't the point of this thread. The fact that the US, France, Sweden etc..are just getting on with it, accepting its with us, deal with it, that's the point. This virus isn't going away any time soon if ever, the sooner that's accepted the better the strategy put in place. Will the UK open and shut every 6 months? They'll be nothing left of it.