Training Centre

[Jose]

Ok. My best effort at response.

I’ve lived in Henley nearly 10 years and can hand on heart say I don’t know a single Coventry supporter. I’m not saying they don’t exist and I fully appreciate there most definitely is antipathy between the two clubs but it’s not and never has been a concern or care of residents. Is the planning issue being used to score points by Coventry supports? I don’t doubt it. On the same token is it easy to simplify a different objection and attribute it to a wider battle with Wasps supports? I don’t doubt it.

That battle is very much “your” battle and it’s far to easy to throw a community objection alliance into that mix when the truth is far from it.

Henley is not a bastion of Coventry ultras I can assure you. I would guess (based on pub attendance for villa games I have gone with this team) that had Villa attempted to do this deal in the manner it had been done. The residents would be putting up the same objections.

The biggest myth I can see is one of the centre being used by a few hundred members. Indeed, this was a “fact” used to push through the purchase.

They gym is a small but sufficient gym, requiring no membership. I paid on the door to use the gym ad-hoc to suit my work life balance. It was never empty but likewise any more than 20 people in it would be crowded.

The wider facilities such as the floodlit all weather pitch, the football pitch, the gym hall and the smaller hall were used extensively by teams of the local area and securing a weekly slot was a challenge due to the popularity.

Disabled teams, football, junior teams, badminton, yoga, karate etc... all took place.

The centre was used in holidays for out of school clubs.

The saddest part (I fully accept Covid would have led to this) is seeing this land now left gated up and patrolled by security prior to lockdown.

Then look at how this deal was attempted to be pushed through in a discreet and importantly closed manner and you can hopefully see from a residents view why the offer of a couple of open training sessions and a bus to watch the odd home game doesn’t really offer the community much.

The site had restrictions on it. It’s a community site and the provisions offered as part of the buy out have been openly challenged by higher authorities than the residents.

Wasps is the “brand” buying it therefore naturally the name Wasps gets used as part of a challenge.

We have a government promoting a fight against obesity yet a local authority doing arguably a back door deal to close a community sports centre down and tell people they can use another towns centre. Guess what, clubs local to that already have the slots booked.

It’s a strong community with a mix in demographics that care about having a local sports centre.

You ask what will happen if turned down. I hope that the teams and individuals can continue to access a sports centre that promotes a healthy lifestyle.

Hopefully that gives some insight. Written with courtesy and honesty and genuinely no allegiance whatsoever either another rugby club or for that matter a not that local football club.

[Shugs]

My perception of this is that there are two options.
1) Wasps buy and upgrade and community usage can continue to some level.
2) Land gets flogged for housing.

It's not a viable centre as it is so it remaining as a facility for community use isn't really on the table.

[hookender]

3rd option would have been ( if it was being used as much as Jose has indicated) to offer it to local parish council to run it by setting up a sports and social club and be self funding .Sounds a similar usage  and size to village where I live ( no gym but snooker room and squash court along with club house , tennis courts and MUGA ).

[Neils]

3rd option would have been ( if it was being used as much as Jose has indicated) to offer it to local parish council to run it by setting up a sports and social club and be self funding .Sounds a similar usage  and size to village where I live ( no gym but snooker room and squash court along with club house , tennis courts and MUGA ).

Problem would seem to be that the owners require something like 5 m quids for the site.

[hookender]

Oh it sounded like it was owned by local authority or leased from them if there are covenants in place for community use .

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Jose. Thanks. A clearly honest and heartfelt post.

The problem is, it will never be what it was. It only ever stayed viable with the College there, and I thought that at the time the County decided to close the College. Many of my friends went there, and, one way or another, that too will becomes housing. The school I went to as a boy has gone the same way. The playing fields are now houses, the school a mixture of apartments and restaurant, plus some houses. Sad, so sad.

The question facing the residents was one that the survey never posed. The survey suggested that the question was:

1. A big nasty corporate giant (of any kind) grudgingly giving some limited access, OR
2. A nicely maintained community facility, like it was before.

The fact is, the centre was running at a massive deficit that could not be afforded by the council before Covid, and certainly cannot be afforded now. Yes, if the local people can stump up the millions in price, and afford the millions per year it will cost to run ... no, that isn't going to happen.

The real choices were:

1. A big nasty corporate giant (of any kind) grudgingly giving some limited access, OR
2. A never maintained, closed up, slowly crumbing and vandalised community facility, like it is already heading towards. An eyesore.
3. Housing.

Even if the land WAS reserved for community use. Even if it was given to the council only for educational use, maybe still 'owned' and rent on a peppercorn rent ... all that can change in the blink of any eye.

My old school playing fields were still 'owned' by the local family, covenanted decades ago to revert to them should it not be used for education, at a peppercorn rent. The courts decided that it belonged to the council, and they could do as they wished with it.

I never much like when arguments/discussions happen, where the real issues and choices are not being aired; the elephant in the room ignored.

It is much the same where I live, in Wellesbourne, where the landowner wants to sell the airfield for housing. Not in the local plan say the residents (not me, I am in favour of the deal). They bitch about the noise of the helicopters and planes, and then want to keep it. They bitch about the litter and traffic chaos of the market, then want to keep it.

But, at the time the planning application was submitted, there was no local plan. That was hatched up after the application was made. It is a brown field site, and thus eligible to receive permission.

Arguments back and forth get so heated and emotional. 'We want what we had before,' is cried out loud. I could wish for a new body, knowing what I know now, and another crack at life post 16 years old. It isn't going to happen.

It is pointless me saying this, as I know the residents truly do want what they want. But, they won't get it. If they manage to thwart Wasps, they will sit back, smug and smiling. Wasps owe nothing to the community of Henley, it will be a set back, but nothing more. Then the residents will sit back and cry, 'Why has it not reopened?' And it will go to ruin. And houses will come. And, the residents will rue that time they protested, but that, as they say, is democracy.

[andermt]

Looking at some posts on Facebook it looks like it may be going through.

Interesting reading some of the posts from the Henley Alliance, And as much as Jose posted his thoughts the initial comments form their 'spokesperson' says a lot about the reasons behind the protests with comments about Franchise, comments wishing Wasps go bust etc. Also they think it's being bought for housing, it's a trading centre for a professional rugby team, some people just don't get it.
They have also been complaining about this thread as apparently most Wasps fans live over 100 miles away, again this shows the usual CCFC style of abuse.

If it hadn't been sold to Wasps I believe it would have been sold for housing as it was up for sale before Wasps were interested as it was losing money. I do wonder how often the main protagonists actually used the facilities rather than just trying to cause issues for Wasps.

[baldpaul101]

Thanks for your response Jose.

can I just ask though, as you say you are not a rugby supporter, why did you join this forum for what appears to be simply to comment on this thread?

I don't pretend to know about whats going on on the ground, I live in South London, which is why I asked for any locals to comment. I'm all for Wasps having a training ground of their own, but not at the expense of alienating the local population. I am still not clear whether, if this goes ahead, it will actually upset the locals or will most of them just mumble into their G & Ts and carry on?
Are the most vocal locals a band of nimbys, CCFC supporters with an axe to grind or genuine members of the local community who have used this facility & will miss it?

Whilst I get the other comments saying that its never made any money & has been allowed to deteriorate somewhat, it doesn't necessarily mean that's right, if the locals really do want a facility which they are losing and it really wasn't sustainable, why are they not directing their anger at the local council rather than Wasps?

[BG]

Baldpaul1001 - I think one of our more regular posters said they knew someone that owned a shop in Henley and would ask for their point of view. Perhaps that person then joined to make a comment.

[baldpaul101]

That's entirely possible BG, maybe I'm just being overly suspicious....

[NellyWellyWaspy]

So, this is what the main anti-Wasps organiser said (Russell Cox, a roundball fan and coach at Henley Forrest FC):

So, despite 711 written objections, a 3000 signature petition, 81% of people questioned in a ballot, all of the local Parish Councils, the Medical Centre, the local High School, SDC's own Core strategies, Sport England, England Hockey, Uncle Tom Cobley and all, being opposed to the absurd notion of a franchise Rugby team from London taking over a viable rural Sports Centre, the case officer has recommended that the application be passed at the planning meeting on October 21st, subject to a farcical payment to, wait for it - help towards some sporting facilities in the exact area that they have just deprived! You really couldn't make it up!
The justification for this approval are amongst other things: " I am satisfied that sufficient evidence has been provided to indicate that there is no realistic prospect of the facility continuing for commercial and/or operational reasons on that site", absolute nonsense, as they are well aware, we have proof of funds to help keep it open for the local community, but have not once been contacted regarding this! 
"Local concerns at the loss of Henley Sports College are understandable, however, I cannot see any evidence to suggest the former use can continue and I am satisfied that the development would be in accordance with 2 of the criteria for CS.25 when the policy requirement would only be for compliance with one criteria. Furthermore, the involvement of the WASPs Community Development Team will help to promote healthy, inclusive communities in the spirit of the CS.25 and therefore should be supported". I'm lost for words!                                                 
A much heralded community use order which caters for: Archery, Gaelic Football, Rugby League, Rugby Union and Lacrosse, and that's it, are you joking? I would suggest they put plans in for a traffic island outside the entrance to cope with the demand. According to the officer this makes up for the loss of Football, Hockey, a Gym, Basketball, Karate, Netball, Flyball, Pilates, Weightlifting, Cricket, Trampolining and many more popular sports.
The whole report could have been lifted directly from Wasps ridiculously inaccurate application, and it is a huge disappointment that the officer has seemingly ignored the basic facts, as well as the local feeling and certainly any sense of morality. That doesn't matter though, as it is not her who will have to tell her children that they can no longer play sport in Henley. There are many, many people involved in this whole debacle who should hang their heads in shame.
Based on the fact that there are a fair amount of shall we say coincidental circumstances surrounding this sale, we are in contact with the national media. If anyone has any contacts regarding this, either national or local, please pm me asap.
In the meantime, we will keep on fighting and hope that either the remaining planning committee see sense, Sport England come to our rescue, or our District Councillor who is on the planning committee for this application, has the chance to convince his Council colleagues of what is best for his constituents, oh wait a minute!

As far as I can tell, the planning meeting is next Wednesday, but workers are already on site digging up the field (not where there is a pitch) next to the astroturf pitch, if the heroic local window cleaner is to be believed.

[DGP Wasp]

Well the writer lays bare their complete lack of impartiality in their opening sentence.  "...a franchise Rugby team from London...".  Absolutely no evidence of an axe to grind there then!?

They have a lot to say for someone who claims to be "lost for words"!

[Laterontoday]

You only need to look on Google to see the devastating loss of sports space in Henley.  Ow no what's that just across the road.  The secondary school with a sports hall and two outdoor pitches.  What's that a little further down the same road Henley Sports Pavilion ( the Cricket club) with 7 tennis courts, cricket pitch and two further outdoor pitches plus the main sports building.

If the community value the old college site so much why didn't or haven't they applied for the site to be listed as an Asset of Community Value.  This would have given their community company first choice on the site when it was sold prior to being sold to Wasps.  Why because the business case doesn't stack up for a leisure centre in Henley.  The Sports Centres at Studley and at Southam only stay open because they are attached to the local secondary schools and the district council commit to running them at a loss.

Wasps state in the application they will allow local clubs to hire the facilities when they are not using them.  This is a good use for run down facilities that would otherwise be demolished and turned over to future housing development.

 

[Brandnewtorugby]

My mate with offices in Henley said;
"I haven't heard very much about it from the locals if I'm honest..."
"The only feedback I have had is that they were disappointed to lose the only gym in the local area..."

[Brandnewtorugby]

Just got a view from another mate who's in laws live there. He said the reaction is mixed as some people think they didn't do much for the area around the Ricoh. They also think there is some pretty unreasonable negativity though, "like hankering after the old council gym that was cheap as chips" and "that this big rich club is bound to make things worse and only care about themselves