Would you swap?

[InBetweenWasp]

I think this is an easy one for me.

- Dallaglio for Shields
- Lewsey for anyone of the Back 3
- Shawsey in for Rowlands and Rowlands goes to the bench

I think we may be forgetting just how good that team of the mid 00s was.  3 Premierships on the spin; 2 Heineken Cups and more besides.   To find room for only 3 of them in the current team which has sadly, so far, won diddly squat does them a disservice.

I'd certainly add Dowd for McIntyre and Worsley for Young.

King/Umaga and Waters/Fekitoa too tight to call.

I guess disservice depends on how you're answering - I'm referring to who i'd have from 2004 in my 2020 team.  Given the way the game is played, i'd have the 3 I mentioned as I think they'd slot in and strengthen the team. 

For me, I wouldn't swap Worsley for Young because I think Young's turnover abilities and running game are better than Worsley's.  Worzle was a tackle machine.

In terms of who would win in a match between the 2004 v 2020 team, I think it'd be tight on current form.  I think the 2004 front row would be stronger than out 2020 one, our 2020 backs better than the 2004 backs and it'd come down to a shoot-out of the Back Rows.

[Marlow Nick]

Maybe I'm showing my age but I'm starting with the multi-cup-winning team and asking which of today's squad would displace them.

Jack, Jimmy, Joe ... yes
Malakai ... maybe but what you gain in hits you lose in marshalling the defense

Everyone else I think is a very difficult call. While our current squad show great promise they haven't yet earned the right to replace the 2004 squad as club legends

[Steve from Cov]

It’s interesting to see debate of King v Umaga. No mention of Cips yet.

Cips wasn't in the 2004 Team and he isn't in the squad now 

Doh - my bad. 🙃

[westwaleswasp]

Shaw, Lol and Dowd would, for me, walk into any wasps team from any era, and Lewsey too. If it was, say Josh vs Josh, then Lewsey would get it because he was absolutely immense, which is not to say that Josh B is not a fantastic winger, but Lewsey was simply an outstanding international quality player who could play anywhere in the back three, an exceptional man on and off the pitch. 

I do think our squad of today has immense promise, and is in some ways deeper than in our glory years. I think squads everywhere are deeper, because the attrition rate is ridiculous, but we certainly seem to be building something special, but to eclipse LOl and the boys, well that is some ask. 

The saddest part about these things is that great players for us who played in poorer wasps teams, rarely get their achievements highlighted. Great to discuss Willis vs Worzle, but guys like
Wentzel, Varndell, Wade will never feature in these debates as the team as a whole was not good, and guys like Beale, who played in a fine Wasps team, never will either because Sarries were cheating and we only got one close shot at the title rather than 2 or 3 we might have otherwise expected. 

[wasps]

Marco Wentzel - what a guy.

Until Jack Willis came along, I don't think I'd ever seen a forward who was solely responsible for such a major change in a teams performance

In particular, I'm referring to our line out that was essentially the worst in the league before he arrived, and then the best with him running it.


He also seemed to be a top guy too

[backdoc]

wasps, you had to be there in that difficult era to appreciate his value to the club. Fully agree.

[Shugs]

Wentzel was different class in a number of ways. Almost a non-tangible effect. Although I think the likes of Fekitoa and JTA have had similar effects in terms of comerarderie. For me the 2004 team beats this team. But the exciting thing is the similarity and the sudden realisation that a 2004 scenario is possible again.

[Peej]

I'd have Erinle in the squad right now. Lewsey over Bassett. Shaw over Rowlands. Lol over Shields for the final only.

[Trevs Big Tackle]

Super sub Ayoola! Great try scoring record for minutes played I'd think. Really explosive off the bench.

[wasps]

Pretty handy at countdown too

[Skippy]

Waters is an absolute must in my book. He was the man that lead the rush defence to such great effect. No Waters = no defence. While the current crop are starting to look pretty solid in defence, I’d want Waters in charge of that area. As Shaun used to say — defence wins championships!

[wasps]

I feel that we do Fraser a disservice by only ever referring to his defence.

His support running was exceptional too.

I lost count of the number of times we would break through the defensive line and then look like the player was isolated with the attack about to break down.
Then out of nowhere, Fraser would appear on the shoulder ready for an offload and he was under the posts.

[hopwood]

I, like others, think that we all too easily forget how GREAT that 2004 team was.

It was a team of invincibles.
I was there for each match of that campaign.
That match in Perpignan alone was off the richter scale. It was colossal. Brutal. Intimidating.

I think for the very fact alone that there haven't been crowds all this season is a psychological hurdle that still needs to be overcome when they get the opportunity.
In Dublin in 2004....there were 47,000 Munster fans all dressed in red. There were about 1,000 Wasps fans doing their best to be heard.
It was febrile. Mad. Insane. The whole stadium shook each time Munster scored.

So for me....I think this current 2020 team can go all the way.
It's so exciting. It's full of confidence. Full of talent. And I'm a big fan of Jacob's.
If they can hold their nerve and play with freedom next week...then I think Wasps can lift the Premiership Cup and win the whole thing!


However, for a composite side, this is my team (based on ability, pace, blend, experience, fighting battles on foreign fields, international and top-level know-how....and seeing it through to the death).

J Lewsey, Zach Kibirige, F Waters, S Abbott, T Voyce; A King, Dan Robson; C Dowd, T Leota, Kieran Brookes, S Shaw, Joe Launchbury, J Worsley, Jack Willis, L Dallaglio (capt).

Replacements: Simon McIntyre, Tommy Taylor, Will Green, Will Rowlands, Thomas Young, Rob Howley, Jimmy Gopperth, A Erinle

[wasps]

I, like others, think that we all too easily forget how GREAT that 2004 team was.

Exactly.
They weren't just the best team in England at that time..
They were arguably the best team in Europe over that period.

If you put a shortlist (say, top 5) together of best club sides in the world at that time, Wasps were absolutely on that list.



I love the squad we have at the moment.
Not only are they playing well at the moment, but more importantly they're just having fun and that's great to see.

But I'm not kidding myself yet. There's a way to go yet before you'd wager your house on them.


However, for me, it's never about being the best.
It's about enjoyment, entertainment and spirit.
This team, like 2004 delivers in all those areas

[Skippy]

I was there for the match in Perpignan. The crowd was raucous and the atmosphere was really intimidating. If memory serves me right — there was a lot of drinking that weekend — the crowd had been silenced by half time. At the time, it had already begun to feel normal for Wasps to do stuff like that. With the passage of time it has become quite clear just how special that period was.