Great Expectations?

[HDAWG]

Without having seen the game, there's a big difference between rotation during lockdown last season, and having to put in replacements at 4,5,6,8,9,10,12,13,15 (Jimmy at 10 is not Jimmy at 12). The only non-key player not in that list is 2. That's the whole spine of the team swapped out.

The issue is, there's a lot of internationals to come, so we're basically going to have to make it work either way.

Very good point.

[Hymenoptera]

Thus far we've registered a win against a definite top four contender and a BP away at a decent side. Yet the pervading feeling seems to be one of overall disappointment. It was bound to happen I suppose - we've done nothing but win (save the final) since resumption. Losing seems like a jolt. Teams will prepare harder and more thouroughly for us all season. I think the bigger challenge though will be for us to play with the freedom we did last season whilst carrying the extra expectation of winning. When we "freed up" against Bristol and Glaws we scored the sort of tries we were scoring for fun last season. The coaches will need to work hard to keep the freedom flowing.

I have to correct you here, we burgled a win against a contenders 2/3rd team and the prem is full of decent sides.
Yesterday was last week, against better opposition. We are not playing well, best not to pretend we are

I don't buy all this Bristol 3 Rd team stuff. And when you say "burgled a win" we were ahead for most of the game. We're not playing as well as at the end of last season - that's a fact. But we ourselves are missing half a dozen pivotal players.

What part dont you buy, by all means go and check out the team Bris put out and tell me different, they had a center playing 10..it was absolutely a 2nd/3rd string team, ...and it was burgled in the last few minutes by a soft tackle and decent offload. Being 3 ahead isn't something to stand behind.
Every team is missing pivotal players, it's international season, that's what happens. We'll be without these players for a while so what do we do.
I'm all for positivity in hoping this is some sort of blip but I'm not one for offering positives that don't exist, the scoreboard yesterday flattered us with 2 tries in the last 2 minutes, it was a 40 point drubbing against a team that is unlikely to be in the top 6 and we didn't even got a LBP. Gloucester got a pasting last week...by Tigers.
I am now dreading Falcons next week and am thankful it isn't in their house on Friday night. We are at the level we were this time last season and that's a worry.

[Heathen]

Next week we will probably be without Joe, Jack, Dan, Matteo and Will as there is the last round of international games taking place. Hopefully we keep Jacob. Throw in our mounting injury list and we have selection problems.

The following two weeks we have back to back Euro matches.

We then have Sharks (A) Chiefs (H) and Bath (A).

Follow that with two more back to back Euro games.

Quins (H) Jan 29 - after this game the best I can see us being is 3 from 6. Maybe if Malakai and Ryan are back before then and our injured forwards are quick healers, we might do better than that.

Then 7 consecutive GP games while the VI Nations is played. Eddie may well insist on having his players for the w/e of the 29 Jan as well.

In all 11 or 12 weekends where we will have been plunderd by international calls. That is half the regular GP season.

Hopefully the injury picture will improve but given the short break before the end of last and the current season, the players will be well flogged well before the end of this season.

All of which leads me to believe that Exeter will win the league well before the end of the season. I would not bet against them doing the double again.

[Stang]

Give the number of lads having international call ups and the incredibly short break between seasons, we will likely start slowly this season as things bed in - new ideas and partnerships. We’ve lost one game and it wasn’t pretty, but there are still green shoots and a long way to go. It’s not doom and gloom yet, just not ideal.

Coaches are still good and the squad as a whole is still good, just using it differently this season to last.

[Shugs]

Thus far we've registered a win against a definite top four contender and a BP away at a decent side. Yet the pervading feeling seems to be one of overall disappointment. It was bound to happen I suppose - we've done nothing but win (save the final) since resumption. Losing seems like a jolt. Teams will prepare harder and more thouroughly for us all season. I think the bigger challenge though will be for us to play with the freedom we did last season whilst carrying the extra expectation of winning. When we "freed up" against Bristol and Glaws we scored the sort of tries we were scoring for fun last season. The coaches will need to work hard to keep the freedom flowing.

I have to correct you here, we burgled a win against a contenders 2/3rd team and the prem is full of decent sides.
Yesterday was last week, against better opposition. We are not playing well, best not to pretend we are

I don't buy all this Bristol 3 Rd team stuff. And when you say "burgled a win" we were ahead for most of the game. We're not playing as well as at the end of last season - that's a fact. But we ourselves are missing half a dozen pivotal players.

What part dont you buy, by all means go and check out the team Bris put out and tell me different, they had a center playing 10..it was absolutely a 2nd/3rd string team, ...and it was burgled in the last few minutes by a soft tackle and decent offload. Being 3 ahead isn't something to stand behind.
Every team is missing pivotal players, it's international season, that's what happens. We'll be without these players for a while so what do we do.
I'm all for positivity in hoping this is some sort of blip but I'm not one for offering positives that don't exist, the scoreboard yesterday flattered us with 2 tries in the last 2 minutes, it was a 40 point drubbing against a team that is unlikely to be in the top 6 and we didn't even got a LBP. Gloucester got a pasting last week...by Tigers.
I am now dreading Falcons next week and am thankful it isn't in their house on Friday night. We are at the level we were this time last season and that's a worry.

As you'd expect I disagree with most of that. Bristol sent a team. We beat them. I don't care who was on their teamsheet. To say we are at the same level as last year is just wrong. As for Falcons I've watched them twice and think we'll beat them fairly easily - especially if they kick as much ball to us as they did Sale. I think we'll have to agree to disagree!

[Montague Withnail]

I'm struggling with the optimistic spin as well. While its true that our squad depth is being severely tested, I was hoping Saturday's team would do better than that - even with all the bad luck and some inexperienced reffing.

These things happen, there are all sorts of things at play for Wasps here and I'm not criticising the players or coaches, but the fact is that we are not where we were before the season "break" (if you can call it that). That was a much stronger side than the ones that beat Sarries or Worcester and I don't buy that Gloucester are a good side, they are rank mid-table at best and had plenty of players missing as well. They just identified our weakness and attacked it effectively.

[DGP Wasp]

Squad depth was severely tested throughout the final phase of last season, and largely came through with flying colours.

This is the side that beat Sarries at Allianz Park:
Miller; Odogwu, De Jongh, Le Bourgeois, Bassett; Gopperth; Vellacott; Harris, Cruse, Alo, Rowlands, Cardall, T Willis, Morris, Vailanu

11/15 also involved agains Gloucester.  Lima for Miller; Odogwu started against Sarries and came off the bench to good effect on Sat; Velacott/Wolstenholme switched the start/bench spot from Allianz Park; Brookes for Alo; Gaskell for Rowlands and Young and Alfie into the back row.  Aside from Rowlands, I'd argue none of those represent a big step down in class and in a lot of cases (Lima, Brookes, Young) could easily argue an improvement.  The former beat a near full strength Sarries side, the latter was well beaten by a pretty average Gloucester side that were missing a few of their own.

Hard to know what has changed since.  Jimmy definitely seemed well below his usual level, and when he's firing he is very effective at dragging everyone along with him.  Not at all fair to lay all the blame at his feet though.  Ref certainly didn't help our cause on Sat, but that's not why we lost.  I'm not panicking yet.  Yes, it's a shaky start after finishing last season so strongly, but still feel things will fall back into place sooner rather than later. 

[Shugs]

I just don't think linear comparisons are valid. Yes, the 15 that beat Sarries isn't as strong on paper as that which lost to Gloucester. To suggest that means we're in a worse place now ignores countless other factors - too many to name. At the start of last season there was no way on earth we were scoring tries like the one at the end of the Bristol game or the three v Glaws. Our set piece is markedly better. Our defence is unrecognisable. We've introduced at least six promising academy prospects. There's just no way we are in the same place as this point in last season. We've not hit the heights of post lockdown just yet but we've won one and got a losing BP.

[DGP Wasp]

I just don't think linear comparisons are valid. Yes, the 15 that beat Sarries isn't as strong on paper as that which lost to Gloucester. To suggest that means we're in a worse place now ignores countless other factors - too many to name. At the start of last season there was no way on earth we were scoring tries like the one at the end of the Bristol game or the three v Glaws. Our set piece is markedly better. Our defence is unrecognisable. We've introduced at least six promising academy prospects. There's just no way we are in the same place as this point in last season. We've not hit the heights of post lockdown just yet but we've won one and got a losing BP.

Point I was making is that the slightly disappointing start to the season can't solely be attributed to players being unavailable.   Faced with similarly stretched resources last season, a weaker looking side went and turned over the European champions at close to full strength on their own patch.

The first half of last season for me was characterised by the home results against Irish, Quins and Saints; good in patches, awful in others, and ultimately on the wrong side of a tight scoreline.  The Bristol win was heartening for me in that respect, regardless of their absentees.  4 hard earned points won, rather than 3 lost.

Just a few weeks ago Wasps at times looked like they could score from anywhere, and everything they tried just seemed to come off.  That breeds confidence and momentum which are important to have on your side.  A bit more rub of the green in the next game or two and I think that confidence will come rushing back and we'll be closer to the performances we saw in the final phase of last season.

[westwaleswasp]

I think we need to give it a while before we find out if we have slipped or if it a blip.
Progress is often staircases rather than linear improvements.

It certainly was not the first brown shower we have seen at Glaws, and the BP  cannot disguise how bad we were. It was reminiscent of our home match with Sale last year where we also annoyed the ref  In a couple of weeks we will know when we see how we respond to this.