What has changed?

[Hymenoptera]

The difference between post lockdown last season and this season is preparation.

Previously we had a full, fit squad. The games came thick and fast so they had short, focused sessions where everyone knew what they were doing and confidence to do it under pressure thereby upping the intensity in games.

Now we have disrupted sessions with people injured or away and coming back in with no training time because we don't have enough cover.

Jason Ryles, the England skills coach, is so right about passing making a difference. Players need to hone their skills by practicing together so they execute precisely under pressure. We have not had that time so everything appears forced, laboured and inaccurate. When we do get better preparation time that will return and confidence will grow from that.

You've just described the premiership..not Wasps

Disagree there. Bath is in the same boat and they struggled prior to this weekend. The only teams that have been impressive are Newcastle and Exeter. Coincidence they've had the least squad disruption?

You referring to 5 try yesterday Bath? Who lost away at Exeter Bath? The Bath that got a LBP at home to Falcons..doesn't sound like the same boat to me.

[Hymenoptera]

Confidence and just luck play a big part in getting results. Look at the Saints, Briz game, decided on a rather (to my mind) harsh penalty for a "deliberate" knock on in the 79th minute - a game, Saints deserved to win - but would have travelled back up the M5 thinking HTF did we lose that game? And Briz will be likely honest enough to know on Monday morning at training that they got more than they probably deserved, but will have a spring in their step, that would have been missing, had that penalty gone wide....

Yesterday - after a shonky start, we were on the attack and a terribly offside N'Castle 9 made Jimmy knock on....that probably was a penalty Wasps, kick to corner, drive and try.....but scrum against, went the length of field eventually and they scored. In that parallel universe,  HT might have been Wasps ahead......which is a totally different game....

End of last season, we had confidence we got the breaks - and confidence breeds success.

That said - we did then facilitate N'Castle having an easy ride by allowing that run in - which basically destroyed any chances - and we started more and more to look like a team that had been introduced in the changing room and discussed strategy in the tunnel......we were looking like 15 individuals, not a team, too often.

Getting the stars back will help matters - panicking will not help - it's these times where senior players need to stand up and the coaching team needs to take stock and look to how they will get to the next league game with a fit 23.....

We watched different games Mike. It was a penalty all day long, every week. Saints didnt score a point for 66min and Bristol's 5th choice 10 left 8 easy points on the field. How Saints 'deserved' to win I have no idea.

[Shugs]

Hymoneptera you can't have it both ways. Other teams are excused any underperformance due to their 10 being 5th choice or it being their B team. If that's ok it has to apply for us as well - decimated by injury and internationals. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[mike909]

Confidence and just luck play a big part in getting results. Look at the Saints, Briz game, decided on a rather (to my mind) harsh penalty for a "deliberate" knock on in the 79th minute - a game, Saints deserved to win - but would have travelled back up the M5 thinking HTF did we lose that game? And Briz will be likely honest enough to know on Monday morning at training that they got more than they probably deserved, but will have a spring in their step, that would have been missing, had that penalty gone wide....

Yesterday - after a shonky start, we were on the attack and a terribly offside N'Castle 9 made Jimmy knock on....that probably was a penalty Wasps, kick to corner, drive and try.....but scrum against, went the length of field eventually and they scored. In that parallel universe,  HT might have been Wasps ahead......which is a totally different game....

End of last season, we had confidence we got the breaks - and confidence breeds success.

That said - we did then facilitate N'Castle having an easy ride by allowing that run in - which basically destroyed any chances - and we started more and more to look like a team that had been introduced in the changing room and discussed strategy in the tunnel......we were looking like 15 individuals, not a team, too often.

Getting the stars back will help matters - panicking will not help - it's these times where senior players need to stand up and the coaching team needs to take stock and look to how they will get to the next league game with a fit 23.....

We watched different games Mike. It was a penalty all day long, every week. Saints didnt score a point for 66min and Bristol's 5th choice 10 left 8 easy points on the field. How Saints 'deserved' to win I have no idea.

Well - I thought it harsh - but that's the fun isn't it! They deserved to win as much as any team that got into a decent lead by playing decently,  even when lacking form, players and confidence. In the RWC 2003, England didn't score a point for 52 minutes in normal time, yet I think they deserved to win.

None the less - the general point remains - it's small margins that can make a large difference. Danny winning that last test in SA probably saved Eddie's job.....and never featured again.....The ref failed to play offside against NCastle and could have cost us the game. Small margins.

[Hymenoptera]

Hymoneptera you can't have it both ways. Other teams are excused any underperformance due to their 10 being 5th choice or it being their B team. If that's ok it has to apply for us as well - decimated by injury and internationals. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Your seemingly confused Shugs, Bristol won, so no excuses required, Saints lost.
Read the thread again, its about Saints deserving to win a game they lost.
So i'll stick with my view thanks

[Hymenoptera]

Confidence and just luck play a big part in getting results. Look at the Saints, Briz game, decided on a rather (to my mind) harsh penalty for a "deliberate" knock on in the 79th minute - a game, Saints deserved to win - but would have travelled back up the M5 thinking HTF did we lose that game? And Briz will be likely honest enough to know on Monday morning at training that they got more than they probably deserved, but will have a spring in their step, that would have been missing, had that penalty gone wide....

Yesterday - after a shonky start, we were on the attack and a terribly offside N'Castle 9 made Jimmy knock on....that probably was a penalty Wasps, kick to corner, drive and try.....but scrum against, went the length of field eventually and they scored. In that parallel universe,  HT might have been Wasps ahead......which is a totally different game....

End of last season, we had confidence we got the breaks - and confidence breeds success.

That said - we did then facilitate N'Castle having an easy ride by allowing that run in - which basically destroyed any chances - and we started more and more to look like a team that had been introduced in the changing room and discussed strategy in the tunnel......we were looking like 15 individuals, not a team, too often.

Getting the stars back will help matters - panicking will not help - it's these times where senior players need to stand up and the coaching team needs to take stock and look to how they will get to the next league game with a fit 23.....

We watched different games Mike. It was a penalty all day long, every week. Saints didnt score a point for 66min and Bristol's 5th choice 10 left 8 easy points on the field. How Saints 'deserved' to win I have no idea.

Well - I thought it harsh - but that's the fun isn't it! They deserved to win as much as any team that got into a decent lead by playing decently,  even when lacking form, players and confidence. In the RWC 2003, England didn't score a point for 52 minutes in normal time, yet I think they deserved to win.

None the less - the general point remains - it's small margins that can make a large difference. Danny winning that last test in SA probably saved Eddie's job.....and never featured again.....The ref failed to play offside against NCastle and could have cost us the game. Small margins.

Sure,, each to there own that's fine.
Fine margins may be, and as you say might have been a win...but if we are shipping 80 point every three matches and hoping to triumphantly scrape by an average team by three then it'll be a long season.

[Shugs]

Hymoneptera you can't have it both ways. Other teams are excused any underperformance due to their 10 being 5th choice or it being their B team. If that's ok it has to apply for us as well - decimated by injury and internationals. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Your seemingly confused Shugs, Bristol won, so no excuses required, Saints lost.
Read the thread again, its about Saints deserving to win a game they lost.
So i'll stick with my view thanks

  Nice try! So if I can sum up whoever we beat there are huge mitigating circumstances for them that don't apply to us when we lose. The debate wasn't about Saints v Bristol - it's about what's changed for us. That's fairly and squarely personnel. Hey-ho the enjoyment in this forum is healthy debate - you feel we're in a worse place than I do - you may well be right. If we don't pick up when we get key players back I'll start to worry.

[wasps]

I think we're struggling at the moment

But at the same time, I think a number of other clubs were struggling after the restart which made us look better

So, as is usually the case, we're somewhere in the middle.
Probably not as bad as some make out, probably not as good as some hope we'd be

[Hymenoptera]

Hymoneptera you can't have it both ways. Other teams are excused any underperformance due to their 10 being 5th choice or it being their B team. If that's ok it has to apply for us as well - decimated by injury and internationals. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Your seemingly confused Shugs, Bristol won, so no excuses required, Saints lost.
Read the thread again, its about Saints deserving to win a game they lost.
So i'll stick with my view thanks

  Nice try! So if I can sum up whoever we beat there are huge mitigating circumstances for them that don't apply to us when we lose. The debate wasn't about Saints v Bristol - it's about what's changed for us. That's fairly and squarely personnel. Hey-ho the enjoyment in this forum is healthy debate - you feel we're in a worse place than I do - you may well be right. If we don't pick up when we get key players back I'll start to worry.

No Shrugs, the title thread was about what's changed for us, my and Mikes discussion was solely about the Bris Saints result. You're right, I am concerned, but less about the positions that will be improved and more about the performance of front line players that wont be replaced. Umaga played as badly as i've seen him for example..
Anyway, if there was no debate the board would a boring place..

[Shugs]

Yes, on that I quite agree. With Umaga I think EJ's interference can't help. Two others I'd throw in at the minute are Gopperth and Young. Both have played a lot of games which may be the extent of it. Problem is, where they play we don't have a lot of scope for rotation.

[Heathen]

It will be interesting to see how we go at RP. With the engine room back and the Jackal plus Dobby, I fancy that we will see a very different performance from Wasps, than what we have seen in the first 3 weeks of the season.

[Neils]

It will be interesting to see how we go at RP. With the engine room back and the Jackal plus Dobby, I fancy that we will see a very different performance from Wasps, than what we have seen in the first 3 weeks of the season.

Hopefully but depends on who comes out of Saturday injured. Currently holding breathe on any updates.

[matelot22]

Anyway, if there was no debate the board would a boring place..

Absolutely. I noticed with some dismay at the weekend that the Renegade Wasps Facebook page has now become one of those places where, if you criticiser the referee, you know nothing about the laws of the game or the ethos of rugby, and if you criticise the team, you're no longer a true fan........... 

[Covkid40]

While nobody can claim we played well and a few players had stinkers i still look at the fact we left at least 14 points out on the pitch, will Gopperth miss that many kicks again? you'd think not. we failed to score two tries through basic handling errors, you'd like to think we would usually score those. we had a very bad day against a team brimming with confidence and due to our own errors never put them under any pressure on the score board. had we scored some of those early points who knows what would have happened, i'm not saying we would have won but it could have been a very different game. with our internationals returning you would think the starting 15 will look very different, and by the new year we should start to see some players return. big worries for me what happens in Feb when they all disappear again.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Anyway, if there was no debate the board would a boring place..

Absolutely. I noticed with some dismay at the weekend that the Renegade Wasps Facebook page has now become one of those places where, if you criticiser the referee, you know nothing about the laws of the game or the ethos of rugby, and if you criticise the team, you're no longer a true fan........... 

I gave up Facebook a couple of years ago and haven't regretted it once.