Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Your England match day squad  (Read 5627 times)

InBetweenWasp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2020, 10:48:04 AM »
Probably not a wise rugby decision but the first thing I would do is drop Farrell. I know highly qualified rugby experts have him as one of the first picks for England/Lions and he seems to suit Eddy's chosen style but since I want to change tactics away from 10 man kick-chase then I don't think he fits a more expansive & creative approach

a) I don't think he's a creative 12 and I don't think he's a crash-ball 12 all he seems to do is either shovel it out or kick it which is exactly what Eddy wants and exactly what I don't. 
b) I think his tackle technique is positively dangerous both for players he tackles and for England if he gets carded
c) the only reason to have him in the team is his kicking and although he's normally very good the difference between his kicking and and the of others such as Ford/Smith doesnt seem enough to justify his place
d) even if he's in the team I certainly don't want him as captain

All very emotional and proves how little I understand rugby but I just don't want him in my team

So who are you replacing him with and is that the only change you would make?

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2020, 11:45:53 AM »

Exactly.
I would replace 9, 10 and 12 if I was in charge.

There's some options for 9 and 10

But I really have no idea what I'd do at 12.


Has there really been a great option at 12 since Greenwood?

InBetweenWasp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2020, 12:14:49 PM »

Exactly.
I would replace 9, 10 and 12 if I was in charge.

There's some options for 9 and 10

But I really have no idea what I'd do at 12.


Has there really been a great option at 12 since Greenwood?

So stick with Farrell for now until you see a better option?

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2020, 12:28:30 PM »

Exactly.
I would replace 9, 10 and 12 if I was in charge.

There's some options for 9 and 10

But I really have no idea what I'd do at 12.


Has there really been a great option at 12 since Greenwood?

So stick with Farrell for now until you see a better option?

Well, that's a damn tricky question

The first question is, does having Farrell at 12 snuff out the attacking intent that you may get from a more dynamic 9/10?

If so, then is there any point in changing the half backs? Are we better off with a unit that know each other?


If it's felt that we can be an attacking force with Farrell still at 12, then yes, I would stick with him until I knew of another option.


The other question is does Farrell's strong personality undermine new, young decision makers in the team?
That's not something I can answer. I'm sure that with a bias against the man himself and Saracens, that a lot of us will feel that he's a hugely disruptive influence on new players in the team.
In that case, I'd want him out...
But if he's actually a strong, galvanising character (as some would lead you to believe), then I think you have to keep him

baldpaul101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2020, 12:53:56 PM »
what everyone seems to be ignoring is that EJ picks a side that will play the way he wants them to play. There's little point in changing 9, 10 & 12 if they play the same way as the current players.
Youngs, Ford & Farrell can all play more exciting rugby, but they are being told not to because that's not Eddies game plan.

Woould I like that to change? yes, I'd love it, but if England had won the world cup playing this way, I wouldn't be upset.

As for Farrell, people who actually know him, have played with him or coached him, (as opposed to people on message boards) have only good things to say about him, his leadership, his drive & will to win & his professionalism & even what a nice chap he is off field.

InBetweenWasp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2020, 03:26:24 PM »
You're not a politician are you wasps?! If not, you ought to be being able to answer a question with a question!  ;)

Who is your 9/10?

westwaleswasp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2015
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2020, 06:19:23 PM »
Persona is important though. As an Englishman in Wales I had years of bull about English arrogance thrown at me, all untrue- until now- Eddie's public team talks are for everyone else apart from England. Every time he settles down and you think he has perhaps learnt his lesson, he pipes up. 
 

Haskell spoke about this in his book.  He references Lancaster, whereby all press conferences or appearances by players they had to speak about culture, respect etc... the players were never allowed to go out there and say "We've been playing well.  The opposition are quality but have looked a bit shaky so we're looking to take full advantage of that and go out there and smash them!" and so often mentally had given the opposition too much ground before they'd even set foot on the pitch.

Eddie talks about openly about wanting to beat teams, sometimes it's running the opposition off of their feet, sometimes it's steam-rollering them.  But he does it to help the players mindset and give them the confidence to openly talk about winning.  Woodward was similar. 

You'll always have the odd game where it comes back to bite him.  Wales are a classic team that seems to be put all their energy into beating England in the 6N and play on emotion a lot.

Wales certainly do, that is for sure. However, for me Eddie's comments are nothing like Woodwards' though- Woodward was respectful of Wales, Scotland, Ireland- there were no, to quote Eddie,  "sh1t countries" moments with Woodward, no "scummy Irish" or "united nations" jibes.  I can't imagine Woodward saying "Well, guys, can you just send my best wishes to Warren to make sure he enjoys the third and fourth place play-off"- Woodward would have rose above it- and often did when sparring with Eddie- and if he did make a barb it was not prior to the game. In advance of the event when we are not playing them what on earth was "Scotland....again they're big darlings aren't they?! How excited do people get when the ball goes from side to side with Scotland!" supposed to mean?

Talking about wanting to thrash Italy is fine, talking about opposition scrums being illegal is also universal. Woodward openly talked about wanting to beat teams, about our strengths, he was very confident,  and but even when was putting together ten on the bounce vs the SH big three he was more respectful before the match, and he certainly did not comment on other teams we were not playing, save for his comments about who he thought we might get if we got to the final in 03.

Worst for me is rounding on the press- it does nobody any favours.

I think I would tolderate Eddie's comments more if we beat the best teams most of the time- but realisitically since 2015 we have played NZ twice and won once each, SA 6 times and won 3 each. His record vs Australia is outstanding, but then they have sunk to 7th or whatever in the world quite recently.  His trophy cabinet has got some stuff in, but the 6N win PC is lower than Lancaster's. For the level of stick he gives out, I expect a better record. A couple more grand slams and I might cut him a bit more slack. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 06:22:16 PM by westwaleswasp »

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2020, 06:50:02 PM »
You're not a politician are you wasps?! If not, you ought to be being able to answer a question with a question!  ;)

Who is your 9/10?

Haha... Yeah, I definitely seem to be sitting on the fence


I'd be picking my 9's between Robson and Spencer... And in the practical world, we should probably be transitioning from Youngs to the those... As such I'd have all 3 in the squad initially with a view to removing Youngs - assuming the other 2 prove better


As for fly half, 18 months ago I'd have been putting cipriani there, but I'm not sure what's going on with him at the moment.
So it's between Smith, Simmonds and Umaga.
Again, you don't completely want to lose the experience of Ford so it should be a transition



I'd probably go with Robson and Smith if I was building a new backline tomorrow
I'd also have Slade, with a back 3 of May, Watson and Mallins

Shugs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4422
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2020, 10:37:20 PM »
I'd drop Farrell in a heartbeat. He's no longer good enough at 10 and he's certainly no 12. So who instead? At 10 perm any one from Smith, Simmonds or Ford (don't think Jacob is there yet). At 12 I'd go with either Lawrence, Marchant or even James. I just don't see what Farrell brings at 12.

hookender

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4035
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2020, 10:39:17 AM »
So a week before the 6 nations, someone shoulders the shoulder boy and he out for the tournament. I would be happy for Simmons to go straight in

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2020, 11:09:09 AM »
So a week before the 6 nations, someone shoulders the shoulder boy and he out for the tournament. I would be happy for Simmons to go straight in

Isn't Ford officially our 10? Farrell being 1st choice 12, 2nd choice 10?

Although it probably depends what Eddie has for breakfast

hookender

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4035
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2020, 12:06:08 PM »
So a week before the 6 nations, someone shoulders the shoulder boy and he out for the tournament. I would be happy for Simmons to go straight in

Isn't Ford officially our 10? Farrell being 1st choice 12, 2nd choice 10?

Although it probably depends what Eddie has for breakfast
I’d be quite happy for Simmons to slot in at 12. Think he has the potential to be like gopperth .

backdoc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1188
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2020, 01:16:19 PM »
Smith is the 10; agree about Simmonds at 12.

wasps

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2020, 01:25:14 PM »

I don't like Eddie experimenting with players positions so I'd want Simmonds playing regularly at 12 for club before he plays there for country

Marlow Nick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 794
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: Your England match day squad
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2020, 05:01:44 PM »
As for Farrell, people who actually know him, have played with him or coached him, (as opposed to people on message boards) have only good things to say about him, his leadership, his drive & will to win & his professionalism & even what a nice chap he is off field.

Farrell may well be a nice chap off the field but like many successful sportsmen he is a very different character on the pitch. Some say strong leadership, I see an arrogant self-centred player who doesn't have enough team ethos to allow another kicker to take over when his kicks are clearly going wrong. Some say he has drive and will to win. I say yes a dangerous thug who has for years had terrible tackle technique and recently nearly caused serious injury to another player. Oh and my missus is scared of his snake eyes when he lines up a kick😳