Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Fiver Off Again  (Read 14115 times)

baldpaul101

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2020, 12:13:30 PM »
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But did he? I don't think he came out and announced it (maybe missed such a momentous event though).

well, he posted on social media something like, "Introducing Victoria Rose Cipriani", after previous posts describing her as his fiancee...

Neils

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2020, 12:26:41 PM »
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But did he? I don't think he came out and announced it (maybe missed such a momentous event though).

well, he posted on social media something like, "Introducing Victoria Rose Cipriani", after previous posts describing her as his fiancee...

Ta missed that.
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wasps

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #77 on: December 18, 2020, 08:16:12 AM »

Looks like Austin Healey is having his say... Trying to be as controversial as ever

Unfortunately, it's behind a pay wall
Does anyone have access to the article?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/12/18/danny-cipriani-not-wasted-talent-never-good-anyway/

RogerE

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #78 on: December 18, 2020, 08:50:05 AM »
Article: (if you open it using Firefox and then press refresh a couple of time quickly it displays the whole article - sometimes takes a couple of goes, but never fails)



Austin Healey
Danny Cipriani — Danny Cipriani is not a wasted talent — he was never that good anyway



I remember when Danny Cipriani first burst onto the scene at full-back for Wasps. He was quick, talented, with a bit of edge about him and he got stuck in defensively. Admittedly, he never really tackled 'properly' but he would get stuck in regardless.

The (now former) Gloucester fly-half is someone who played rugby with his heart but who also lived his life with his heart. He's obviously a complicated individual with lots going on in his personal life, but in Gloucester's season-opening loss at Leicester, he was a complete and utter mess. I know his career is not over, but I fear he has reached a stage in his life where his heart may no longer be in it.

Ben Youngs has won 102 caps for England and Danny will finish with 16. Yet Danny is more famous, more notorious. Why is that? Why is an English rugby centurion less well-known than someone who does not even have 20 caps?

In truth, Danny never really hit the heights with England because he was never good enough. He was nowhere near as good as George Ford or Owen Farrell. He has thrown some amazing passes, he's box office with an immense highlights reel, but if you were to play his 80-minute reel you would see a lot more negative than positive. You cannot play international rugby when your goal-kicking percentage starts with a seven - at best - either.

As a player, he was only ever world class in his ability to manipulate an opposition defence - his distribution and passing - but only when it was on his terms. And that sums up everything about him.

When everything is on his terms, he is great. But when he has to work for something or something is going slightly against him, he reverts back to 'Media Cipriani'.

I spoke to him once and I told him that, whether he took it on board or not, I had been through similar things, someone who was seen as a loose cannon, a maverick. But when you get to 40 you look back and think, 'What could I have done differently?'. If you look back with regret then you're going to have demons to deal with.

When I was 19 or 20, Danny's age when he first started making a name for himself with Wasps, I knew I should have been playing for England. I was good enough to play anywhere in the backline but I was not being picked because the perception was that I was a loose cannon and I might be dangerous to the squad's chemistry. It's no coincidence that as soon as I announced I was getting married I received my first England call-up - it was seen as a sign of me settling down, that I was no longer this loose cannon. 

Danny has never been able to change people's perceptions of him. He worked hard and he trained hard, but he has never put to bed the perception that he could be disruptive to a squad. You can be as much of a gifted maverick as you like, but the common goal has to be the team. And when it isn't, people turn on you.

What's next? He should go back to playing like he did when he was 10 years old. It's not about the money, the fame, Twitter, or Instagram, or television. It's about playing rugby from your heart like you did when you were a kid, and getting stuck in for your mates. Go and get some scars and be a bit more laissez-faire with your own safety and vanity. Maybe he has ambitions for a media career? From what I've seen thus far, I'd be surprised.

What Danny needed more than anything was a father figure in the game, someone to put their arm around him, which is what I had to a certain extent with Dean Richards. I had a bad year in 1998 when I went a bit off the rails and started doing my own thing and thought I was bigger than the club. I went through that. When someone puts your arm around you in that situation, rather than fights you, they tend to get the best out of you. He either hasn't had that - maybe for a short period with Shaun Edwards at Wasps - or he hasn't let it in.

We might have less to talk about now, but Gloucester will be better off without him. 

matelot22

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #79 on: December 18, 2020, 09:10:01 AM »
Seems a little harsh from Healey, although the paragraph regarding the father figure is something we all need. I was just 25 when I lost my dad to cancer, I went through a phase of being a bit of a knob, out too, getting into scraps and so on. Luckily I had a great boss at work and a friend who got me back into boxing so I could vent my frustration down an appropriate channel. I'd like to think Lol or Shaun at least tried to do that with Danny, whether or not he took heed though......

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #80 on: December 18, 2020, 09:15:48 AM »
Quote
Article: (if you open it using Firefox and then press refresh a couple of time quickly it displays the whole article - sometimes takes a couple of goes, but never fails)

For those a bit more technically minded just set your browser to "block scripts".

For the more common browsers:

https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000891.htm


hookender

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2020, 09:29:54 AM »
Tbf to Healey he has only put in his article pretty much what has been said here. Nothing I would disagree with.

Sounds very similar scenario to those that have been diagnosed bi polar.

HDAWG

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2020, 09:42:13 AM »
Feel like there's conflation between Danny not being a good player and Danny being unlikable.

Danny, as a player in 2017-18,  the best fly half in England. And I criticised the hell out of him the season before. He was on fire and worked his way back to the England squad. He matured and his overall gameplan and workout rate was exceptional.

What held him back was stupid decisions off the field, irritating other players, and losing motivation when not selected for England. So I agree a father figure might be what he missed to make him more well rounded. But to deny he's never been the best in England is disingenuous.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 10:07:42 AM by HDAWG »

Neils

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2020, 09:54:51 AM »
Feel like there's conflation between Danny not being a good player and Danny being unlikable.

Danny, as a player, in 2017-18 he was the best in England. And I criticised the hell out of him the season before. He was on fire and worked his way back to the England squad. He matured and his overall gameplan and workout rate was exceptional.

What held him back was stupid decisions off the field, irritating other players, and losing motivation when not selected for England. So I agree a father figure might be what he missed to make him more well rounded. But to deny he's never been the best in England is disingenuous.

He was the best in short spurts/periods completely negated by totally ludicrous brain farts. It is the same old - when he was good he was darn good but when he was bad he was a liability. Great to watch and great to swear at.
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matelot22

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2020, 10:05:38 AM »
Feel like there's conflation between Danny not being a good player and Danny being unlikable.

Danny, as a player, in 2017-18 he was the best in England. And I criticised the hell out of him the season before. He was on fire and worked his way back to the England squad. He matured and his overall gameplan and workout rate was exceptional.

What held him back was stupid decisions off the field, irritating other players, and losing motivation when not selected for England. So I agree a father figure might be what he missed to make him more well rounded. But to deny he's never been the best in England is disingenuous.

Very much +1

HDAWG

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2020, 10:06:25 AM »
Feel like there's conflation between Danny not being a good player and Danny being unlikable.

Danny, as a player, in 2017-18 he was the best in England. And I criticised the hell out of him the season before. He was on fire and worked his way back to the England squad. He matured and his overall gameplan and workout rate was exceptional.

What held him back was stupid decisions off the field, irritating other players, and losing motivation when not selected for England. So I agree a father figure might be what he missed to make him more well rounded. But to deny he's never been the best in England is disingenuous.

He was the best in short spurts/periods completely negated by totally ludicrous brain farts. It is the same old - when he was good he was darn good but when he was bad he was a liability. Great to watch and great to swear at.

I remember a hell of a lot of brain farts in 2016/17 (especially "wrists of gold" Leinster performance), but I felt he smoothed it out in 2017/18.

Neils

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2020, 10:12:18 AM »
Feel like there's conflation between Danny not being a good player and Danny being unlikable.

Danny, as a player, in 2017-18 he was the best in England. And I criticised the hell out of him the season before. He was on fire and worked his way back to the England squad. He matured and his overall gameplan and workout rate was exceptional.

What held him back was stupid decisions off the field, irritating other players, and losing motivation when not selected for England. So I agree a father figure might be what he missed to make him more well rounded. But to deny he's never been the best in England is disingenuous.

He was the best in short spurts/periods completely negated by totally ludicrous brain farts. It is the same old - when he was good he was darn good but when he was bad he was a liability. Great to watch and great to swear at.

I remember a hell of a lot of brain farts in 2016/17 (especially "wrists of gold" Leinster performance), but I felt he smoothed it out in 2017/18.

I suspect much "smoothing" was done by the quality of the players around him. Great season though.
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RogerE

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2020, 10:26:08 AM »
Quote
Article: (if you open it using Firefox and then press refresh a couple of time quickly it displays the whole article - sometimes takes a couple of goes, but never fails)

For those a bit more technically minded just set your browser to "block scripts".

For the more common browsers:

https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000891.htm

True, but remember to reset it after loading page, or else a lot of sites won't work.

baldpaul101

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2020, 10:35:10 AM »
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Feel like there's conflation between Danny not being a good player and Danny being unlikable

To a certain extent I think thats true, however so many people didn't like him including team mates & coaches that that then had a bearing on how good a player he was.
I will always remember him as a fantastic player, yes there were time he made mistakes on the pitch, but he made some magic happen too.

PestNproud

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Re: Fiver Off Again
« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2020, 10:54:26 AM »
Seems a little harsh from Healey, although the paragraph regarding the father figure is something we all need. I was just 25 when I lost my dad to cancer, I went through a phase of being a bit of a knob, out too, getting into scraps and so on. Luckily I had a great boss at work and a friend who got me back into boxing so I could vent my frustration down an appropriate channel. I'd like to think Lol or Shaun at least tried to do that with Danny, whether or not he took heed though......

Blunt rather than harsh, I think -- Healey's been through his own hell, I believe, so can genuinely write from experience and the heart. Inevitably, a little 'Leicester' on Danny compared to Youngs and Ford, but otherwise pretty sharp. Things like this are why I have a lot of time for Healey.

I really hope Danny finds his mark, but sorting personal sh&t can be so hard. Wonderful player who figured prominently in some of Wasps' finest moments, and always think and hope well of him.

Such a shame that Edwards has yet to take on a club side where Cips might get a berth. Gats? Dimes? Can't help wondering what another stint with Wasps would be like, but probably too much to ask of everyone to ensure the right framework and risky.