Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Oh Well - Match Thread!  (Read 12248 times)

Hymenoptera

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #90 on: December 27, 2020, 08:54:42 PM »
Delighted with the win. I don't know what more JTA could have done to get Man of the Match today. Maybe he should have gone and made the commentators a cup of tea during the injury break. Atkinson looks more and more like a young Alex King every time I see him play, and that turnover by Alfie was something special, although fill credit to Cruse to get up and get on his shoulder to finish it off.

Sadly the injuries to Zach and Alfie felt inevitable given how CMK and Tempest neglected their duty of care towards player safety in the first half. With Alfie's injury, Luke James went straight round the side to tackle him and when you tackler a player in that fashion behind them it would be sheer luck that avoids a serious injury. With Zach, I've always been under the impression that you aren't allowed to a) dive on a player on the ground or b) tackle a player without the ball. Yarde chose to dive on him and knocked him out in the process. Quite how that isn't a red card I genuinely don't understand.
I happened in blink of an eye and how you have found fault is beyond me..unlucky rugby incident, nothing more.

westwaleswasp

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #91 on: December 27, 2020, 08:55:52 PM »
JTA hugely influential, full credit where it is due. I can see WR had a great game though- perhaps MOTM influenced by a lack of front rowers involved in the choice? Cruse was great too, and Robson was superb when he came on.

Lots of positives. I think we were better than Sale in attack, and always looked the more likely. Still trying to work out how Josh did not finish what looked like a certain try. Great defence at times. 

I have yet to see a CMK officiated match that flows- whether that is him or not I don't know, but for me he seems to be trying to let it flow, but it mysteriously doesn't, because he keeps whistling.

westwaleswasp

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #92 on: December 27, 2020, 08:58:46 PM »
It's worth reading Paolo's disciplinary judgement from last season, specifically:

Quote
Findings of Fact

The panel did not accept that the Player's action in raising his left leg, with studs directed towards the oncoming players, was anything other than intentional. The panel found that the leg had been raised to deliberately fend off potential oncoming players. With that said, the panel did NOT find that Mr Odogwu had deliberately raised his leg so as to specifically kick out and into the face of the Sale No 12.

This was an extremely serious and dangerous incident of foul play. Whilst the panel freely concede that in the current game players are vulnerable when they jump to catch a high kick; this vulnerability cannot, in our opinion, justify preventative measures such as raising an outstretched leg to occur. To do so would simply allow one form of vulnerability to create another.


The panel found that Mr Odogwu deliberately raised his left leg with studs up so as, at the least, to deter an oncoming attacker. In so doing he ran the risk that his outstretched leg would culminate in a kick to the head or upper body of an oncoming player, as occurred here.

The Player's actions following the award of a red card were utterly unacceptable and not in the spirit of the game. Mr Odogwu laughed at the referee and continued for some time to mock the decision and provoke the home crowd who were, rightly, displeased by his conduct. The panel felt, pursuant to Regulation 19.11.8(m), that this was plainly a case where "any other features of the Players conduct in relation to or connected with the offending" justified an increase in terms of sanction. Whilst we felt that the kick alone justified a Top End entry point, the actions immediately following the imposition of the red card only served to re-inforce our view.

And

Quote
Reasons for selecting entry point:

Any kick to the head is serious. By deliberately extending an outstretched leg with studs showing, in the knowledge there would be oncoming players, Mr Odogwu risked causing serious injury to his opponents. Whilst we did not find that he deliberately sought to kick the Sale No 12 in the face, he deliberately raised his studs knowing full well that that might be the consequence. Thankfully the injury sustained was not serious; had it been then we would have been considering a higher start point.

I cannot see how de Klerk can escape a ban.

Thanks for digging that out. Interesting reading. I guess the key difference is that Odogwu did actually make contact with the head whereas Faf's boot only appeared to catch Porter's shoulder. However, in terms of degree of intent and recklessness the 2 incidents are otherwise remarkably similar.

To me it looked more like throat/chest than shoulder, happy to be corrected.

Rossm

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #93 on: December 27, 2020, 09:04:46 PM »
Well west wales I'm not going to correct you as I agree 100% with you. Chest and throat (and far too close to the latter). CMK is a really poor ref who I think is getting worse rather than learning and improving.
SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

MarleyWasp

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #94 on: December 27, 2020, 09:05:16 PM »
Shoulder, neck and chin all hit.

Going back to Ellia Ellis's red card for Quins against us. Issue wasn't where Dobby landed, it was the action.

Shugs

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2020, 09:22:03 PM »
The reason De Klerk didn't get carded is because he is De Klerk. His perceived impishness means he gets away with a hell of a lot. The Yarde incident was nothing in it for me. Just a high speed chase which doesn't lend itself to control.

Raggs

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2020, 10:00:51 PM »
Problem is any ban (if it is cited) will only benefit other teams not us

Sale missing out on league points may well help us.

coddy

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #97 on: December 27, 2020, 10:14:03 PM »
Problem is any ban (if it is cited) will only benefit other teams not us

Sale missing out on league points may well help us.



It would of helped us more if we got 5 points today and Sale none as would of been likely if he got his deserved red card.

Mellie

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2020, 12:36:53 AM »
An under the radar performance that stood out for me came from Ben Morris.

I'm not sure CMK can be blamed for the continual interference of the ARs and TMO who seemed to be looking for Wasps infringements but missed quite a few from Sale, particularly offside. The penalty they scored from our whole backline offside was extremely marginal. The Sale offside not given at the end was huge.

Can't see much difference between Odoguwu's last year and de Klerk's foot up. It is instinctive to defend yourself when vulnerable, which is what both did.

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2020, 08:19:32 AM »
or the oldies like whose memories are quite up to remembering something a year ago, here's Odogwu's red card, 3:40 mins in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJw__f_tZqM

I don't think they're quite the same, Odogwu does extend his leg after he caught the ball and it does look like he was aiming at the on coming player. I don't believe it was deliberate and it doesn't make De Klerk's any better.

Raggs

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2020, 09:10:04 AM »
An under the radar performance that stood out for me came from Ben Morris.

I'm not sure CMK can be blamed for the continual interference of the ARs and TMO who seemed to be looking for Wasps infringements but missed quite a few from Sale, particularly offside. The penalty they scored from our whole backline offside was extremely marginal. The Sale offside not given at the end was huge.

Can't see much difference between Odoguwu's last year and de Klerk's foot up. It is instinctive to defend yourself when vulnerable, which is what both did.

The offside was from the lineout I believe, and we absolutely were offside by a decent amount unfortunately. The backs clearly thought it had come off the top, but Sale held onto it.

Mellie

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2020, 09:43:25 AM »
It came from a breakdown and TV replay did a freeze. Commentator said can't see anything in that. Camera angle may have had an effect but very marginal.

Raggs

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2020, 10:03:37 AM »
It came from a breakdown and TV replay did a freeze. Commentator said can't see anything in that. Camera angle may have had an effect but very marginal.

OK, not the one I was thinking of then.

RogerE

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2020, 10:34:12 AM »
Telegraph Report:

Wasps record first league win since opening weekend of the season with gutsy performance against Sale

It was far from an assured display but Lee Blackett's men edge past a Sale side still looking for first victory under Paul Deacon

 Sale Sharks 23 Wasps 26


This might not have been vintage Wasps, but goodness how they needed this. Lee Blackett’s side had not won a Premiership match since the season’s opening weekend, but 16 points from Lima Sopoaga’s boot laid the foundations for this gutsy, deserved victory.

There was concern, however, when Wasps’ No 8 Alfie Barbeary, who was once again mightily impressive, had to be helped from the field after a second-half injury. Blackett confirmed that the extent of the injury will not be known for “two to four days” but that the promising tyro “heard something go in his ankle”.

Otherwise, Wasps’ head coach was delighted with his team’s display: “I’m really pleased. What a lot of people will not know is that we went into this game after a lot of time off – seven days.

“We had one session coming into this game. I’m not sure I’d have admitted that if we’d have lost but it was a massive gamble. And the players paid us back.”

Nothing could encapsulate Paul Deacon’s start to life in charge of Sale better than the drive-in pantomime taking place across the road, titled Horrible Christmas. This, the final match of England’s top flight in the strangest of years, was Deacon’s third straight loss – he remains without a win since taking the reins – which he blamed on “unforced and uncharacteristic errors” from his side.

“The lads individually know they need to get better,” he said. “But, we need to work on the collective mindset. In the last three performances, for three halves we've been ok and for three halves we've been poor.

Until the opening try, which was delightfully exploited and swiftly finished by Sale wing Marland Yarde – who later bagged a second – the home side had been architects of their own downfall. Sale’s starting front row conceded nine penalties combined – several through breakdown laziness – while Yarde was penalised for the most cumbersome of high tackles on Paolo Odogwu. On another day, too, scrum-half Faf de Klerk might have been more sternly dealt with after a reckless high boot to his opposite number, Will Porter.

It was somewhat surprising, then, that with so much indiscipline, the score was only 3-3 until 10 minutes before the interval; AJ MacGinty and Sopoaga exchanging penalties for either side. Wasps had been the more successful and penetrative of the two teams with the ball in hand – mainly due to Sale’s over-reliance on a route-one approach – but nothing the visitors mustered came close to the blistering choreography that led to Yarde’s score.

De Klerk looped around Tom Curry on the blindside, but the flanker’s pass was misjudged and mistimed. As is so often the case with De Klerk, however, that did not matter. The whippet scrum-half darted to claim the wayward pass before it hit the ground, and linked with MacGinty. By the time the ball had gone through the hands of Sam James, Yarde had a clear dash for the line. Lima Sopoaga’s defensive nibble made Sale’s task easier, but one sensed that Yarde would have crossed even without the Kiwi’s lapse. Over the past two European weekends, however, these Wasps youngsters have shown that they can play and, in one ruthless eight-minute spell in the second half, they were at it again. Gifted fly-half Charlie Atkinson dummied and ghosted his way through to score under the sticks, with Sopoaga’s conversion equalling the scores.

After the visitors were caught dawdling offside, MacGinty restored Sale’s lead, but that would not last. Barbeary pinched the ball at the restart, blasted through three Sale defenders and a pillowy offload gave hooker Tom Cruse an unopposed jaunt to the line. Sopoaga converted, added another three points thanks to a Sale ruck infringement, and Wasps had a seven-point lead to defend – without Barbeary.

Even after MacGinty and Sopoaga traded penalties, Wasps had two length-of-the-field chances that would have put the game to bed. Dan Robson set Josh Bassett clear after a ruthless counter but Sam James hauled the wing down metres short and Curry won a questionable turnover. Then Zach Kibirige hacked downfield, but he could not control the ball metres from the line. The Wasps wing received an accidental thump from Yarde for his troubles, too, and had to be stretchered off after a lengthy delay. Blackett confirmed after the match that Kibirige was conscious and talking in the dressing room.

One final Sale indiscretion – their 11th of the evening – gave Wasps three more points. Yarde’s late, second try – from another silken move – ensured a nervy ending, but the visitors held on to resign Sale to the unhappiest of New Years.


Shugs

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Re: Oh Well - Match Thread!
« Reply #104 on: December 28, 2020, 10:34:21 AM »
I find Tempest is a better ref than TMO. Keeps battering on about an incident when it's done and dusted. Very rare to see a TH go 80 nowadays so credit to JTA for that - but a bit worrying we're down to one TH.