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Author Topic: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.  (Read 5993 times)

Shugs

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2021, 07:35:36 PM »
I think one thing Umaga might look at is how flat he plays to the line. I think he could give himself a bit more slack by just dropping a tiny bit deeper. He regularly has the ball zipped through his hands. I agree, their is a chasm between him and Smith. I'd certainly give him a break and we have options in Atkinson, Gopperth and Sopoaga.

westwaleswasp

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2021, 09:38:54 PM »
Jacob has bad days, this is not his first bad performance, and when he looks lost he really looks lost. He has come back before. Smith has looked terrible at Quins at times, and sublime at others. I do think the Jacob pudding has been over egged by the media, and he should be a fair way back from England at his current point of development.


I thought Zach looked good individually today, Minnozzi was not bad going forward and very committed, but the back three was disjointed as a whole positionally. It felt like they had just met and not trained.

Heathen

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2021, 09:44:54 PM »
Was Atkinson not considered for today? He would have a useful player to have on the bench, if not as our starting 10.

The two Saffas really gave Quins go forward and and we never matched the physicality that they and Dombrant exhibited.

Throw in the experience of Brown, Care and Smith’s exceptional form and we were always on the back foot.

What worries me is that Saints won this week and will be up for it, next week, after watching our display today.

HDAWG

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2021, 10:02:41 PM »
Jacob has bad days, this is not his first bad performance, and when he looks lost he really looks lost. He has come back before. Smith has looked terrible at Quins at times, and sublime at others. I do think the Jacob pudding has been over egged by the media, and he should be a fair way back from England at his current point of development.


I thought Zach looked good individually today, Minnozzi was not bad going forward and very committed, but the back three was disjointed as a whole positionally. It felt like they had just met and not trained.

Bare in mind, Jacob is where Smith was years ago. Smith had an amazing first season, then poor second season, then was great after that. Funnily enough, he was bad after being an apprentice to EJ... I reckon Jacob has been through the same thing. He's still young, he'll improve.

Steve from Cov

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2021, 10:26:41 PM »
I think Jacob plays poorly when he gets slow ball.

Chunky24

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2021, 07:44:40 AM »
Understandably Jacob is getting a lot of the flak, because at Fly half, like Lima at full back those errors are even more obvious and magnified. It's why Mike Brown, despite flashier competition, got picked for years by England, good basics and few errors.

But also consider the starting back line had 5 changes from the Bath game over 2 weeks ago including 2 players to England, Fekitoa coming back from a long time out (which it looked like), Minozzi returning from self announced physical / mental issues and Zach back from a severe head knock. It's no surprise really they didn't click and that was just magnified and made to look even worse by the pressure piled on by Quins.

wasps

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2021, 07:49:58 AM »
I think I agree that Jacob isn't as great as his often built up to be, but I don't think he's as poor as is made out above.

While he may play worse with slow ball, so do most fly halves and the best ones learn to handle that - presumably by changing their game slightly, dropping a little deeper, playing territory etc.

In hindsight, our backline may have been better with Jimmy at 10, MlB at 12, Bassett on the wing and miller at 15, however, there's just no way to know that before the game
There's been a number of games where we were expected to get beaten by a bigger, stronger, more intense side and we've taken them on and beaten them.

Yesterday was just one of those things

InBetweenWasp

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2021, 09:37:13 AM »
I think it's easy to over-react in these situations - both a heavy loss and after a heavy (unexpected) victory much like Chiefs. 

Hats off to Quins for a sublime performance, they targetted our 9/10 axis throughout the game and their defence was in-your-fac aggressive.  Their challenge is to do this repeatedly.  The issue for Quins hasn't been their ability to play like it - For a long time, it's been figuring out a way to get them up for much than just one big game.  Despite having very mediocre seasons, they often found an intensity to beat Sarries at The Stoop, but then continued to flounder.

Esterhuizen was the difference for them today - He bullied Jacob.

For Jacob, HDAWG and I share the same opinion.  I said to the family today that Jacob has a bit of second-season syndrome about him - There's enough game-tape of him now for opposition defences to work him out and plan for him.  There's no doubt he's a talented player who plays instinctively when he's on the front foot.  He'll work it out.

Today was one of those days though where we really need to try and slow the pace down in order to regain some control and composure.  When Fowkes was interviewed, he suggested we needed to up the pace but it seemed like the more frenetic the game got, the worse our composure got. 

Agree also on the sentiments of pick your best scrummaging front row to start - Perhaps Brookes was on the bench because he's off, or wasn't fit enough to play the full 80 and so was perhaps enforced rather than tactical but he made a difference to our scrum when he came on. 

Porter kicked a lot - which is in vogue these days for scrum-half.  But his kicks were often totally uncontested (Perhaps a sign that we missed Basset or a good indication of the general lethargy about the team today).  I'd like to see us vary our kicks in these situations.  Often Brown was deep, so able to command longer kicks with ease.  At the same time the Quins defence was rushing, so there was a good gap. 

This is fairly common in games and I often wonder why the attacking team doesn't try and chip the ball over the defensive line but well in front of the FB or grubber through more often to turn the defence.  It'd be a 50/50 ball, but that's better odds than just about any of our box kicks yesterday and it would also put doubt in both the FBs (does he continue to sit so deep, or come forward a bit creating space to kick long for territory) and also the defensive line's minds as they'll start to worry whether by rushing they'll expose space.

Of course, it does increase the risk of a charge down but I think in games like yesterday the benefits outweigh the risks. 

Robson in particular has learnt to do this well and in the latter games of last season we saw him often vary kicks between box, long, short, low, high and keep the opposition guessing. 

Lastly, a word on Miller.  He's never really let us down since signing despite often playing a bit-part of the last 3-4 seasons.  The poor bloke has had to contend with Piutau, WLR and Beale in his position.  With Minozzi openly talking about feeling mentally and physically fatigued and Lima struggling to do the basics of a FB well - like catch and tackle perhaps it's a good opportunity to give Miller a run of games, with Lima covering 10/15 on the bench and Minozzi a few weeks R&R.

The brainfart Miller had with his no-arms tackle was lucky to be a penalty only, but I put that down to a lack of gametime/match fitness. 

HDAWG

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2021, 09:45:58 AM »
InBetweenWasps, yeah exactly, excellent points.

I really can't stress it, Umaga isn't suddenly a bad player. He's a gifted player who will get better. Marcus Smith and Joe Simmonds have 2-3 years more experience than him and have had bad days just like this. I just hope he tries to learn from it. It's not fair to compare him to them yet ,which much of social media have been doing.

BdeB

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2021, 09:52:03 AM »
Is there a danger that we turn into Quins of the last 10 years. Brilliant when England players available but struggle when they are away? There is no doubt that the heart/soul of this squad at the moment is Joe L, Robson and Jack Willis, when we have even one of those playing we play well. We do need to get a bit more depth and some more leaders for when those guys are away. I would be up for Brad being captain alongside Joe L. Anyway bounce back next week.

Mellie

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2021, 11:03:55 AM »
Wasn't it last season that Jacob had a very poor game. Instead of dropping him, like a few people were advocating on here, the coaches backed him and he then gave a series of glittering performances?

Neils

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2021, 11:05:49 AM »
Wasn't it last season that Jacob had a very poor game. Instead of dropping him, like a few people were advocating on here, the coaches backed him and he then gave a series of glittering performances?

Yes
Let me tell you something cucumber

Heathen

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2021, 11:20:51 AM »
Is there a danger that we turn into Quins of the last 10 years. Brilliant when England players available but struggle when they are away? There is no doubt that the heart/soul of this squad at the moment is Joe L, Robson and Jack Willis, when we have even one of those playing we play well. We do need to get a bit more depth and some more leaders for when those guys are away. I would be up for Brad being captain alongside Joe L. Anyway bounce back next week.

It has also become quite evident that with no Paolo or Alfie in the team, our carrying ability is seriously diminished.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 11:42:45 AM by Heathen »

Neils

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2021, 11:31:56 AM »
Is there a danger that we turn into Quins of the last 10 years. Brilliant when England players available but struggle when they are away? There is no doubt that the heart/soul of this squad at the moment is Joe L, Robson and Jack Willis, when we have even one of those playing we play well. We do need to get a bit more depth and some more leaders for when those guys are away. I would be up for Brad being captain alongside Joe L. Anyway bounce back next week.

It has also become quite evident that with no Paolo or Alfie in the team, our carrying ability is seriously finished.

This is over egging it a little. With all the hype about Paolo it seems difficult to remember how few games he has actually played for us. Really neither of the players mentioned were much involved in getting us to the Final only threeish months ago.
Let me tell you something cucumber

Shugs

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Re: Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2021, 12:23:32 PM »
In terms of carrying I think Rowlands had a poor game when we needed him to step up. We had ball carriers out there, especially when Harris came on but we were rarely on the front foot.