Always a Wasp

Author Topic: More Dobby  (Read 1685 times)

Neils

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14802
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
More Dobby
« on: February 20, 2021, 12:09:29 PM »
Let me tell you something cucumber

hookender

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4036
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2021, 12:26:03 PM »
Didn’t realise he still has thrombosis problems.

And yes I agree with him that Ben Youngs having 106 caps is ridiculous, though I pretty sure he didn’t mean it how I mean it😉

Rossm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7462
  • Hey, Slow Down.
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2021, 12:35:15 PM »
And in today's Telegraph:

The plight of Dan Robson highlights England's need for the Saxons to come out of hibernation

Eddie Jones stands by his trusted lieutenants but sometimes to the determent of rising stars and those on the fringes

It is one of Eddie Jones’ many paradoxes that the England head coach is an extremely radical yet archly conservative selector.

By one count, he has called up 149 players to England squads over the past five years, but as we have seen recently he is also loyal to a fault to trusted lieutenants such as Billy Vunipola, Ben Youngs and Elliot Daly. The relative youth of this current England team has created a sizeable blockage where dozens of players have come into a few camps, maybe even gained a couple of caps and are then dumped.

This is Jones’ prerogative. His sole job is to pick the best England XV, but this can breed simmering frustration. As Bath No 8 Zach Mercer detailed in Friday’s Daily Telegraph, his lack of contact from Jones let to him signing for Montpellier at the age of 23. Others, such as Cameron Redpath have thrown in their lot with other countries. There is no guarantee that either Harry Randall or Paolo Odogwu could not follow suit to Wales and Italy in future despite their presence in England’s Six Nations squad.

What would English rugby give then to have a mechanism to keep these players engaged in their system and giving them a platform to prove they are ready to take the next step? In effect, what price would the Rugby Football Union be prepared to bring back the Saxons team, which has been dormant for the past five years? The Saxons remain England’s officially recognised second team meaning an appearance for them against equivalent opposition “captures” their permanent allegiance.

Scrum half Dan Robson played in the Saxons’ last fixture, against South Africa A in 2016 and says that it had significant impact on his development.

“The experience was the big thing for me,” Robson said. “We played a really good brand of rugby. We wanted to throw it around and try to run the South Africans a bit ragged. And I think we did that pretty well. It was my first big proper tour away from age group rugby and I loved every moment of it. It drove me to want to want more.”

Robson is a good case study of a player who needed that. Jones clearly places a premium on experience in his starting scrum halves. The four players who have worn the No 9 shirt during his reign are Youngs (32), Willi Heinz (34), Danny Care (34) and Richard Wigglesworth (37). Yet how does a player can gain experience unless you are trusted to start a game? In Robson’s case, he is approaching 29 having made nine appearances off the bench, including most recently an excellent cameo in the 41-18 victory against Italy.

Jones has frequently mentioned he pays little store to club form – where Robson has been the leading English scrum half of the past four seasons. A Saxons team would have provided the necessary showcase for Robson to prove to dispel what other doubts Jones may have around his communication or game management skills.

“It (the Saxons) is just a stepping stone isn’t it,” Robson said. “It’s another opportunity for players to be able to showcase themselves in a different environment and to get that feeling of being away in camp and really try to improve every day. It’s massively important. We haven’t had those tours for a while now. Hopefully we can get back to something like that.”


Who would make an England Saxons team now?

Backs: Freddie Steward (Leicester); Ollie Thorley (Gloucester), Paolo Odogwu (Wasps), Piers O’Conor (Bristol), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish); Joe Simmonds (Exeter), Harry Randall (Bristol)
Forwards: Beno Obano (Bath), Tom Dunn (Bath), Ehren Painter (Northampton), Nick Isiekwe (Northampton), Alex Moon (Northampton), Ted Hill (Worcester), Ben Curry (Sale Sharks), Sam Simmonds (Exeter)



Both Conor O’Shea, the RFU’s director of performance rugby, and Jones have recently made supportive comments about the return of the Saxons. O’Shea’s predecessor Jon Callard says that it is a crying shame that the Saxons has been placed on a five-year hiatus. He points to a 2014 match between a Saxons team, containing up and comers Elliot Daly, Kyle Sinckler and Henry Slade against a Barbarians side containing 700 caps.

“Sinckler held his own against this gnarly experienced Barbarians pack,” Callard said. “He was fantastic. Then you looked at Slade and think this boy is all silky, but he toughed it out. He took a smash, went off and got a load of stitches and came back on. You thought there is something there.”

The RFU retain the option of bringing the Saxons back, although it would come at a cost of organising player release from Premiership clubs. The governing body, however, has considerable leverage since agreeing to suspend relegation from the top flight. As Callard suggests lack of suitable opponents could be solved by arranging tours to countries like Georgia who are desperate for such competition. 

It comes back to what price the RFU are willing to pay, but Callard says you only need to look at the current England team for proof of its benefits.

“You look how valuable Sinckler to this current team. How valuable Daly is to the team. How valuable Slade is. That is the power of the Saxons. I would make sure it is an essential component of rugby landscape.”

SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

WonkyWasp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2021, 03:01:42 PM »
and ........ CONGRATULATIONS  to our  3 Centurions  ...............           

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2021, 06:25:27 PM »
I think the Telegraph article shows the key problem with having an England Saxons, the writer puts together a decent enough team, but it includes several players (including Isiekwe and both Simmonds) who you get the impression that Jones has no interest in.

So having the Saxons would not provide any opportunity if the coach believes his current selections, (Billy, Daly etc) are the best players in the best team. Dan needs to start a 6Ns game not get a Saxons game when I'd suggest he'd learn little. If Jones doesn't pay much store in club form, presumably, he selected Odogwu after having some sort of vision?

England's vulnerability is not having trusted starters at 9, 12, 15, 8 beyond the current starters. A couple of injuries could make matters very awkward.

JonnyD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2021, 10:40:55 AM »
Didn’t Maunder pick up caps in Argentina (when absolutely Dobby should have toured) and then got dumped as well

mike909

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2021, 02:37:47 PM »
Didn’t Maunder pick up caps in Argentina (when absolutely Dobby should have toured) and then got dumped as well

He got 3 mins as a sub in the first Test and Care played all 80 in the second.....That 3mins is his one and only cap......which given Youngs play at times must stick in his throat...

andermt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2021, 07:42:08 AM »
My concern with having the Saxons is the potential effect it could have on a players international career, for every star that comes through, a large number of others end up with one or two Saxons appearances and nothing else, and are then tied in for life. Take a couple of those mentioned in the article, Redpath, Randall, Odogwu, could probably add Umaga to that list.

All of those 4 could have probably had a few games with the Saxons and then never get pulled into the main England squad, but all 3 had/have other options currently with Redpath taking up a place with Scotland and Randall & Odogwu still having the potential to play for Wales or Italy.

Perhaps once Jones has moved on and wants to look at a squad that goes beyond the Sarries team the Saxons might be a good pathway team, but with Jones seemingly only picking the same base team with the odd random 1 time only selections I don't think it would work.

Trevs Big Tackle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2021, 08:32:00 AM »
I was wondering what I would do if I was dual registered and had spent the 6 Nations campaign holding tackle bags in EJ's England squad only to be called into the bench for the final game. Would I excitedly take my spot knowing in the back of my mind I would probably be subbed on with 3 minutes to go and never called into another squad, ruining my international chances with my other team? Or would I "suffer" a minor injury in training and have to withdraw, keeping my options open for when a new coach takes over?

Anyway, I see Harry Randall has withdrawn from the England squad with an ankle injury. Replaced by Alex Mitchell.

hookender

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4036
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2021, 05:10:53 PM »
One more featuring Dobby

Got a bit concerned finding it in Glaws paper ,especially as Heinz has signed for Worcs

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-wasps-ace-dan-robson-5024414

MarleyWasp

  • Guest
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2021, 09:37:51 AM »
One more featuring Dobby

Got a bit concerned finding it in Glaws paper ,especially as Heinz has signed for Worcs

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-wasps-ace-dan-robson-5024414

Looks like Gloucestershire Live were having a "lets make a story out of a coincidence" day. Otherwise known as a weekday for them.

Heathen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3098
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2021, 10:59:00 AM »
One more featuring Dobby

Got a bit concerned finding it in Glaws paper ,especially as Heinz has signed for Worcs

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-wasps-ace-dan-robson-5024414

Looks like Gloucestershire Live were having a "lets make a story out of a coincidence" day. Otherwise known as a weekday for them.

They have obviously run out of fingers and toes to count on ;D

Neils

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14802
  • Wasps Rugby Fan
    • View Profile
Re: More Dobby
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2021, 11:16:43 AM »
One more featuring Dobby

Got a bit concerned finding it in Glaws paper ,especially as Heinz has signed for Worcs

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-wasps-ace-dan-robson-5024414

Looks like Gloucestershire Live were having a "lets make a story out of a coincidence" day. Otherwise known as a weekday for them.

They have obviously run out of fingers and toes to count on ;D

Not many of those on a hoof!
Let me tell you something cucumber