Do we need a goal kicker?

[Bloke in North Dorset]

The thread on MVG got me thinking.....and I’m thinking out loud ....

Jimmy’s day’s are obviously numbered and he’s spending less time on the field as time passes. He lost his kicking mojo and seems to be struggling to get it back. 

Jacob’s record isn’t brilliant and I heard one stat that he’s at 60%.

Lima’s on his way out by all accounts.

Rob Miller’s out of favour and whilst I haven’t seen stats he’s not renowned for his goal kicking it is solid within his range.

Successful teams have outstanding  goal kickers. Not just for converting tries but it keeps the opposition on their toes. In 2003 my boss was an Aussie and he moaned about JW kicking so many goals instead of going for touch - don’t cheat was my response. 

I wonder if we’re going for touch because we don’t have the confidence to go for 3pts? That’s a good strategy if you’re converting those opportunities, but we aren’t.

Going touch Is OK when you’ve got control of the game but early on accumulating points sends a message to the opposition. Once you have a good lead those expansive plays are easier. 

Building leads is the way to bonus point wins. 

So, do we need a good goal kicker or have I missed something?

[Shugs]

It's a good point. I do think Jimmy will be around next year but will he be on the pitch enough? I think both Atkinson and Mills can kick but not sure on stats. It's probably going to come down to Umaga.

[hookender]

Perhaps the question should be do we need a goal kicker who knows his limitations and the team at large being pragmatic.
 Penalties early on - take the points if within comfortable range of main kicker ,or when we had Daly to scare oppo about conceding penalty around halfway line. Once you’ve got points above one score start considering kicks to touch for bonus try point.
  Records for kicks are nice but if you’re given a conversion on a windy night off the wrong side of a favourable foot by the touch line ,not a lot you can do about it

[Tervueren]

We do need to get near to the goal for kicks to become a consideration.

[HDAWG]

I'd argue we need an experienced scrum half for when Robson is away. I get it would be tricky because we have Porter and Wolstenholme, but would it be worth getting someone for them to learn from when Robson is away for a couple of seasons?

Will they actually be learning from these experiences or do they need a bit more support?

[DGP Wasp]

Jimmy seems to be over his little kicking blip.  But he can't play every game and Umaga is not as dependable.  Atkinson hasn't yet been asked to kick regularly enough to know one way or the other, but the fact that he's not normally asked to kick suggests there's still work to be done there.

Agree about scrum half.  None of the 3 back ups to Robson has stepped up these past weeks and shown themselves to be a solid alternative, much less actually put some pressure on Robson for the shirt.  All the leading sides have 2 top drawer scrum halves that can rotate pretty readily, but we have quite a drop off when Robson is unavailable.  For a time Robson and Simpson offered exactly that, but since Simpson initially lost form and then left (and rediscovered some form) we've been very thin.  I know we want to invest in the young, emerging players and give them the opportunity, but if they're not yet ready then it doesn't help their development to place such expectations on them.  Another international quality 9 who is not actually playing internationally should be high on Lee's shopping list, and then develop the other 2 at their own pace rather than throwing them in out of necessity.

[andermt]

I'd argue we need an experienced scrum half for when Robson is away. I get it would be tricky because we have Porter and Wolstenholme, but would it be worth getting someone for them to learn from when Robson is away for a couple of seasons?

Will they actually be learning from these experiences or do they need a bit more support?

Like Ben Vellacott?

[HDAWG]

I'd argue we need an experienced scrum half for when Robson is away. I get it would be tricky because we have Porter and Wolstenholme, but would it be worth getting someone for them to learn from when Robson is away for a couple of seasons?

Will they actually be learning from these experiences or do they need a bit more support?

Like Ben Vellacott?

I meant someone like Aaron Smith.

[SilverShire]

I reckon Jimmy is ahead of Jacob and Atkinson in the kicking pecking order due to his past success of kicking under pressure. But with the fear of relegation gone, I would like to see Jacob and Atkinson giving the opportunity to kick for goal more. As previously mentioned Jimmy isn't going to be around forever, so why not take this opportunity to get some good kicking experience in for the younglings?

I do think that unless we have a significant edge in dominance over a team within the first 20mins, we should take the 3 points when on offer. It is incredibly frustrating to see multiple attempts at kicking for corner or tap and go result in no points. 

[DGP Wasp]

Like Ben Vellacott?

I think that's exactly what we all thought we were getting with Vellacott to be honest.  However, things don't always go to plan, and his injury seems to have set him back a lot.  He is rumoured to be off to Scotland with an eye on international recognition in future.  If that doesn't come about and he stays with us and rediscovers his pre-injury form (best case scenario), then how long before he gets a Scotland call up, leaving us back to square one during international breaks, and rekindling interest from Glasgow and Edinburgh.

[Mellie]

The way he's playing at the moment suggests a Scotland callup is a long way away.

[HDAWG]

Like Ben Vellacott?

.... and he stays with us and rediscovers his pre-injury form (best case scenario) ....

Genuine question, did Vellacott ever look that good? I thought he had potential and he came across as someone who could develop. Not like we signed someone who was as good as Robson or Simpson yet but could be in future.

[hookender]

Like Ben Vellacott?

.... and he stays with us and rediscovers his pre-injury form (best case scenario) ....

Genuine question, did Vellacott ever look that good? I thought he had potential and he came across as someone who could develop. Not like we signed someone who was as good as Robson or Simpson yet but could be in future.

Feeling was he wasn’t as good as Joe but being younger his best was yet to come.

[DGP Wasp]

Like Ben Vellacott?

.... and he stays with us and rediscovers his pre-injury form (best case scenario) ....

Genuine question, did Vellacott ever look that good? I thought he had potential and he came across as someone who could develop. Not like we signed someone who was as good as Robson or Simpson yet but could be in future.

I think he did at Gloucester.  Certainly when he came our way from Glaws and Simpson went in the other direction I felt we had got very much the better end of that deal as Simpson's form had dipped and their relative ages.  Vellacott came with a fair amount of Premiership experience for someone of his age, and had featured regularly for Gloucester and was even called up to the EPS.  Admittedly that may have been Eddie trying to turn his head from continuing with Scotland, but he was of enough interest for Eddie to think that he wanted to get him in.

We signed a very good young scrum half who had shown more than just promise at that time.  Shame it hasn't worked out for him.

[Mellie]

I was very impressed with Tom James for Northampton against Bath. He looked very savvy for a young scrum half, has a very quick and accurate pass and is able to mix it physically too.

I was surprised Saints took him off and a couple of fumbles by his replacement didn't help their cause which ultimately was a defeat when victory looked assured after half an hour.

I'm not actually that impressed by Saints first choice 9, Alex Mitchell, who is in England camp currently. He's quite a quick runner and supports quite well but not sure about his distribution and overall control and game management.