18 months after the Word cup final: Wales v England post match thoughts

[Mellie]

Extreme Arrogance  = EAs. Something that pervades the squad and management

[Neils]

Extreme Arrogance  = EAs. Something that pervades the squad and management

Thanks for the valuable correction

[mike909]

I've been told by Jones' fans that I fail to see his brilliance....I certainly can't deny that he is a very effective coach and if I wanted the apocryphal team coached to save my life, I'd probably choose him to do it in a one off game. You could see the effective he could be in the '07 RWC for SA and with Japan....however, this article (not exactly unbiased) does suggest that his management skillset is "difficult" and potentially controlling

 https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/108275798/new-book-reveals-how-eddie-jones-loses-assistant-coaches-and-dressing-rooms

Working as an assistant to Eddie, you were always having to defend your position. You would put everything on the table and have to convince him that you were right. When he put something on the table, you'd have to convince him he was wrong. Trouble was, that never happened.

Now people do change and that was some time ago - but the way England seem to conduct themselves and the stories told (again probably not unbiased) by Brown about how Danny was excluded from the F&F game player discussions in SA in '18 do suggest a bit of a "cabal"

So for me Jones basically matched SL's record in 6N's and other internationals, except in having one better season - a GS and one much worse season, losing 3 6N's games and 6 in a row. SL managed a win over NZ and a tour to NZ too but cocked up a RWC at home. Jones' record is great, but in the end, managed to get a great one off win vs NZ, only to fail to back it up.

Then, in the period since, it's almost like that loss to SA had triggered an even more "power and kick" based emphasis. You could see this vs Italy in the 2020 6Ns - kick regardless, 44 times.....and vs Scotland in losing and having only 35% possession kicked 34 times....Vs Wales, Ford didn't take the ball forwards, ball in hand, hardly at all - less than Farrell vs Scotland. But passed lots and lots.....These are the result of strategic decisions. Ford is v dangerous, ball in hand, but was required to pass to Farrell.....

So - what I see - and I'm no oracle! - is a side with a spine of players that are either out of form or not getting game time, playing for/within a system that doesn't allow/promote on field leaders and a need to comply with the "plan" And linked to that, little real pressure on places, if you are one of the chosen few.