The Whistle Blower

[asteriskszegol]

Is it just me, endless lockdown, and feeling jaded, or has rugby become almost unwatchable now? There are so many reasons why a referee has to blow for something that there seems precious little enjoyment in the game any more. It's so technical - we just shift from one infringement to another. Teams simply play to catch each other out, and progress up the pitch using penalties. Penalty after penalty, after scrum leading to penalty, into lineout into rolling maul into collapsed maul into penalty, and on and on. Yuerrgghh! The referee has become the leading player on the pitch. Watching dear old Hamish followed by Pascal on Saturday was very instructive for petty court lawyers, perhaps, but a death to anyone who might once have thought that rugby was a beautiful game. OK, I grew up on a diet of David Duckham running rings round Coundon Road - and, most memorably, on THAT day at Cardiff Arms Park - but there didn't seem much left of that sort of thing going on at the weekend. At least in the other so-called, self-styled Beautiful Game, the ball is play more often than not. Now, if we get more than a minute or two continuous action, it's deemed "breathless". What happened - and why does it seem so fundamentally dysfunctional now? (Answers on a postcard, please!!)

[Shugs]

No, I still think it's by far the most entertaining 80 minutes out there. I'm really enjoying games still and I don't think there's anything that finding a way to reset scrums quicker wouldn't fix. The physicality and skill levels are possibly higher than ever and in terms of the Premiership the playing field is leveller than it's been for a while. I still think each game is a great spectacle that provides real entertainment.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I like watching live games, being there. I really miss the better atmosphere of the 'smaller' games, the U18's the A team. TV doesn't cut it for me.

[wasps]

I'm still jaded by the whole Saracens debacle, but I still enjoy watching Wasps.

I've not paid much attention to the 6N's, but I think it's because of the amount of Saracens players in the team who shouldn't be - not because they cheated (that shouldn't affect the national team), but because they're not playing, have no form or match fitness.



I'm not bothered by refereeing performances. Unlike some, I don't feel that the current performances are materially any different to those of any year.
The laws are a bit of a mess, but always have been.


Wasps aren't playing well, that's the hardest thing to take

[hookender]

I like watching live games, being there. I really miss the better atmosphere of the 'smaller' games, the U18's the A team. TV doesn't cut it for me.

Wasps
‘I'm not bothered by refereeing performances. Unlike some, I don't feel that the current performances are materially any different to those of any year.
The laws are a bit of a mess, but always have been.’

Interesting points . Yes I much prefer being at a live game to tv. Is it that you are less aware of technical points being debated so that ref decisions are more acceptable? Or the banter of the crowd (rugby related or not,  including opposition views ) make for a more relaxed view of things.

 Strange ,when I watch the women’s rugby or schoolboy, where there are no tmo interventions  or screens I’m more likely to accept refs rulings and even sympathise with their on the spot decisions.

[JF]

If it wasn't for rugby (and cricket and football) I would have gone round the bloody bend during the pandemic.

At a time when there is little to differentiate one day from another I have found that sporting fixtures not only give shape to the week but also a break from the rest of the utter, utter rubbish on telly.

Note the use of "fixtures", the sport itself has often been less than ideal!

[Lwasp]

I think Rugby has a real problem growing as a sport because of the confusion surrounding ref decisions and the inconsistent application of laws. One season to the next the application of the laws changes as World Rugby orders various clamp downs. When you watch a game and the pundits are arguing over who has been penalised and why (the 1st Itoje penalty there was a debate about whether the assistant called him offside or was it Jamie George, they didn't know who made the decision and who it was against). The ref is miked up, he should be 100% clear who has been pinged and why, the NFL can do it. Governing bodies need to work much more on trying to increase the level of consistency across refs to make sure the same offences get the same sanctions. Week in and week out we are debating how one clear out was a rugby incident versus one deemed a red, let alone the yellow/red split.

If a casual fan tunes in, watches the mess on the field and comes away scratching their head with no idea what's happening they are unlikely to return. And it's actually worse at a live game where the only way you find out what the ref is saying is paying even more money for a ref link (if available). The game becomes impenetrable to new and/or casual fans.

Sadly the solution always seems to be new Laws to speed things up etc. and that just compounds the problem.

[Sting]

Lwasp: Then maybe we should stop debating and stop complaining about the ref? Sounds more like football fans. it is bad enough that the commentators have pointless chatter to themselves or between themselves and they too try to referee the match from the commentary box.
the referees do the best they can and with the aid of the other match officials usually get it right, but sometimes may not. it is a fast moving complex game (arguably unlike NFL). We need the the match officials do their job. decisions that go against us will be evened out by decisions that go for us. such is sport. Our on-field performances and results is down to our coaches and our players not the referee.

[Lwasp]

No Sting, I think there needs to be a real effort made to reduce the debateable number of decisions. Just not talking about it doesn't make the game any easier to grow and sell. Wasps need more people coming to watch at the Ricoh and on telly, the game needs to be accessible to new fans.

I agree with you that the ref needs to be taken out of the equation wherever possible, don't put yourselves in positions to be penalised. England's, and probably Wasps's, recent failings have been failure to adapt to this week's on field interpretation. All I am arguing is that governing bodies should work to reduce the amount of adaptation needed from one ref to the next. And that when Sir does make a decision it is clear and obvious what that decision is so that players can adapt accordingly. Then, if they continue to be pinged I agree it is the players and coaches that are not doing their jobs.

If not and the game stays as it is with club crowds of 10k, no more than 500k viewers for club matches on telly, then it is living far beyond its means and is doomed.

[mike909]

There are some key Laws that WR wanted emphasised, these included Laws 14 and 15 - tackle and ruck and it does seem that in the SH, games are played and reffed such that there is decent (not perfect) clarity over the requirements of players at the tackle and who can do what there after

This was supposed to be the same for NH refs and players. This appears to have been a mess in application. Watching a lot of (especially) Mitre 10 games, level below SR, the tackled player releases the ball, the tackler releases and rolls and a jackal  ONLY goes for the ball if first to the tackle and is on feet.

What we have too often is a semi reffed breakdown, where hands are allowed in rucks - and this in turn incentivises dangerous clear outs and slow ball.

I'm too often mystified as to what refs are blowing for/not blowing for, having taken the time to read Laws 14 & 15 and the examples provided. It's as if those Laws are ignored such that players are having to guess what's allowed.

This makes the game too often harder to watch and confusing to comment on.

[Chunky24]

Back in the halcyon days many of us started watching or playing the referee pretty much only blew his whistle for time, knock ons, forward passes and tries, the rest either didn't have anywhere near as many laws or self policed, to get sent off required pretty much a full on assault.
The game is very different now and there are so many laws not least player safety, that give reasons for a ref to blow their whistle now at any situation, in addition to the 2 supporting sets of AR eyes and the TMO. The drive for "entertainment" has often been the other leader in this with speed of ball important but has actually created the opposite situation with the many additional laws for the ref and players plus them teams not actually wanting to play in an entertaining way due to the risk / reward.
I miss, amongst many things, having the full ref Mic only at live games where although I may not agree I can get a clear picture of what the referee is seeing and saying.

[Rossm]

Refs shouldn't 'coach' the players. After all this is the premiership. If they infringe, then ping them. If they can't work that out and continue, yellow card them. If the ref has to continually shout "No (pick any number), then the ball has already been slowed down and the damage has been done.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

One season to the next the application of the laws changes as World Rugby orders various clamp downs. When you watch a game and the pundits are arguing over who has been penalised and why (the 1st Itoje penalty there was a debate about whether the assistant called him offside or was it Jamie George, they didn't know who made the decision and who it was against). The ref is miked up, he should be 100% clear who has been pinged and why,

It might help if the pundits shut up occasionally and listened to the ref. I have tried to listen, frustrated, while the ref explains a decision or chats to the TJ with the pundits talking over the top of him. Then a couple of minutes later the pundits are complaining they didn't understand the decision.

[wasps]

Refs shouldn't 'coach' the players. After all this is the premiership. If they infringe, then ping them. If they can't work that out and continue, yellow card them. If the ref has to continually shout "No (pick any number), then the ball has already been slowed down and the damage has been done.

I dunno, that's kinda been the basis of the ref/player relationship for as long as I can remember.

Admittedly, it has always felt like it means that you're allowed to cheat until you're told that you can't

[mike909]

Refs shouldn't 'coach' the players. After all this is the premiership. If they infringe, then ping them. If they can't work that out and continue, yellow card them. If the ref has to continually shout "No (pick any number), then the ball has already been slowed down and the damage has been done.

The sort of "coaching" comment in SH games I've watched are more direct and at the time - as a reminder. So when a player is tackled, the ref can shout: "tackle", "release", "roll", "ruck" which means the players comply in real time or it's a penalty. Seemed to speed up the ball being available for side in possession or to turn over, and reduce the pissing about once the second player arrives and it's a ruck.