Bristol V Wasps: Post match thoughts.

[wasps]

I agree that there were few positives to take from yesterday.
However, I also accept the "tired" argument.

It's not just physical tiredness, it's mental tiredness too. It's so much harder to lose than it is to win, and losing regularly saps confidence.



Confidence is a strange thing. It can seem almost impossible to change it at times... Yet at another time, a single tackle can turn it around.

I think we came out yesterday with some belief, but as soon as things turned against us we were back to square 1.



Big players returning can certainly turn the confidence around and then suddenly the team won't look tired any more.
But, we need to win when those players return otherwise we're really in trouble.


What we don't have at the moment is game changers.
Dan, Joe and Keiron will give us a stronger platform to work from.
Barbeary, based on previous performances, is a game changer... As is Jack, but he's not around for the foreseeable future.


It could go either way when we get some players back, but ultimately, without relegation to worry about this is the year I'd want a collapse to happen.... Providing we find a way to resolve it for next season

[Hymenoptera]

So is it the chicken or the egg. Are they tired because they are losing or are they losing because they are tired.
Were they tired putting 50 past Bath or did the tiredness only kick in the following week having taken 50 from Quins, or were they tired from game two, shipping 40 to Glaws. None of it make sense. And tiredness, mentally or physically, doesn't explain why we are playing such dull rugby.

Seems to me like a statement used when someone can't offer anything tangible, it's a subjective smoke a mirrors answer that's clearly working because supporters are agreeing that's the issue, ignoring the fact that half the team have returned from breaks or been rotated...and Lee is paid to work in tangibles.

Lee soaked up the praise for the upturn in fortunes, giving the team 'license to play'. What's changed, or was it just a fluke?

[wasps]

Hymenoptera...

None of it is quantifiable.
The only stat that we can see that shows anything is that we're losing.

Everything else you or I say is just speculation.

The coaches do have more stats, but again, they probably don't provide definitive answers... It would all come down to how those stats are interpreted.



Is our first choice 23 a top half of the league matchday squad?
I firmly believe it is.

Is our wider squad a top half squad?
I don't see why not, but it probably depends what positions you're having to rely upon the squad with. i.e. You'll always struggle to replace Jack Willis with similar quality

Are our coaches top half of the league quality?
That's probably open for the biggest debate. We'd seen significant improvement in our defence which suggested that Costello had maybe turned a corner. However, in my opinion the quality of a coaching team should be judged based on how they handle adversity. It's a lot easier to win when you're already winning. We're now losing and it'll take a good coaching team to turn that around both physically and mentally.
This is when they really earn their money

[Hymenoptera]

Then we agree Wasps. If its not quantifiable, lets not make excuses or uneducated guesses, lets stick to the facts, the facts are we are playing awfully in every facet of the game. Winning or losing isn't the issue, the manor of the losses is the issue.

[Shugs]

Aside from indiscipline our main issue in attack at the moment is playing everything through a predictable nine. Porter has good aggression but for me is very easy to read. That won't get fixed until we get Robson and to a lesser extent Wolstenholme back. It's indisputable that we're losing at the moment but we could easily have won at least the Glaws, Irish and Saints games. I was re-assured by the intensity last night which is a good indicator of where a team are. I genuinely don't think we are far away. As for every facet of our game not working I thought we were ok at the line out and possibly edged scrum time. Defence was decent bar one missed tackle. Obviously lots to improve on but we're no lost cause. By the way Hymoneptera I've put my lottery ticket in a safe place!

[Hymenoptera]

Aside from indiscipline our main issue in attack at the moment is playing everything through a predictable nine. Porter has good aggression but for me is very easy to read. That won't get fixed until we get Robson and to a lesser extent Wolstenholme back. It's indisputable that we're losing at the moment but we could easily have won at least the Glaws, Irish and Saints games. I was re-assured by the intensity last night which is a good indicator of where a team are. I genuinely don't think we are far away. As for every facet of our game not working I thought we were ok at the line out and possibly edged scrum time. Defence was decent bar one missed tackle. Obviously lots to improve on but we're no lost cause. By the way Hymoneptera I've put my lottery ticket in a safe place!

Ha ha...touche.
I agree with the 9 statement entirely, Robson will hugely improve this, so im not worried about it, what does worry me is what's not happening beyond the 9. There are a plethora of options outside of crash bludgeon, someone needs to tell the players. Like i keep saying, the wins, losses or nearly's don't interest me, it's the level or performance and even certain individuals i have a problem with. Someone has to lose, its sport, but what counts is how you got there and our play is borderline unwatchable.
Anyway...almost got it out of my system until next week.

[Shugs]

Fair points. The very players who should be dictating those plays and orchestrating them are, at the moment just trying to keep their heads above water (Porter, Umaga, MLB). They've all tightened up. Never thought I'd say it but there may be a case for a couple of games at 10 for Sopoaga. As you say, nine gets fixed with Robson but at 10 we need Jacob to fire again as there's no-one incoming there.

[Beasties]

Is Atkinson injured at the moment or just being protected? He's at least as good as Umaga right now and is gonna be much the better player in short order. It must be disheartening for his team mates right now watching players breeze through Umaga.

[Hymenoptera]

Is Atkinson injured at the moment or just being protected? He's at least as good as Umaga right now and is gonna be much the better player in short order. It must be disheartening for his team mates right now watching players breeze through Umaga.

Totally agree with Atkinson status

[Peej]

Where does anyone see anything other than the unlikliest of wins coming from in the next month, given we've got Falcons, Sale, Clermont and Exeter to come?

[Shugs]

I fancy we'll beat Falcons and Sale. Clermont - not sure - they are lethal at their best. Can't see us getting anything at Exeter.

[InBetweenWasp]

Did many others catch Lee’s pre match interview?

I thought he was pretty fair, that it’s pretty small margins between winning and losing.  Sometimes reading on here, it feels like there’s this gaping chasm that seems insurmountable.

I’ve no doubts that there’s a cumulative draining effect both mentally and physically on losing games, even more so games that with hindsight you look back and think, they were winnable games.

I’m a little surprised by the retort to Lee’s post match comment about the squad being tired.  It’s perfectly possible and plausible for our guys to be feeling it, but other teams and vice versa.  But because no other team is claiming the same, it’s written off as if the squad are a bunch of snowflakes and Lee hasn’t a clue.

Last year, Lee spoke about having a focus on what we’re good at and he put that down focussing on two things

I) Counter attacking from turnover ball
II) Unstructured play

For me, our defence has wavered and getting that back on track will solve a lot of our issues.  We seemed to have found a sweet spot where we were solid in defence allowing us to absorb pressure - without conceding penalties - and crucially, being able to bide out patience and wait until striking for a turnover.

At the moment, too often we’re missing tackles, or not holding our shape and it just creates this knock on effect of being under pressure, meaning we do things that get pinged to try and relieve that pressure and also too often gamble on turnovers that don’t come off.  It’s a vicious cycle.

If there was one focus for me, it’d be getting our D right again and I think things will dramatically improve from there.

[wasps]

On paper including current form, we lose all of those upcoming games.
But games aren't played like that and small things can make all the difference.

Even just the mental boost of having Joe launchbury, Dan Robson and Alfie Barbeary in the team can potentially do it.

Last year, Lee spoke about having a focus on what we’re good at and he put that down focussing on two things

I) Counter attacking from turnover ball
II) Unstructured play

I've always felt like wasps are at their best when they are good at turning ball over.
I think back to the days of Paul Volley or Tom Rees. They were amongst the best at winning ball at the breakdown and we were absolutely lethal on turnover ball.

We then prospered with George Smith, and the benefits that Thomas Young seemed to gain from learning from him... And these days we have Jack Willis........ Unfortunately we don't have Jack Willis.



It's terrible to pin everything on the shoulders of one man, but it so often feels that our best game is currently built on whatever Jack can do at the ruck.

He's so good at competing that it causes problems for the opposition, which in turn affects their attack and ultimately improves our defence.
He turns so much ball over that the opposition either look to putting more men in the ruck, or trying to offload before it. All of which forces them to change their game and potentially affect their attack.


Not only does he win us turnovers on which we can capitalise, but I feel that our defence is better because he causes do much disruption.



But, yet again, we're without him for an extended period of time, so what do we do?
Barbeary is a freakish ball carrier, in a similar vein to Hughes when he joined us, or Billy when he broke through.
We need to capitalise on his power before teams start to target him and attempt to negate his influence.
Thomas Young isn't having the same impact as he was when he was in the Wales radar. Maybe he's been focusing on supporting Jack, maybe the co-captaincy had taken his eye off things. Either way, we need his A grade breakdown work if we're to continue the same approach.
Tom Willis and Brad Shields are workhorses without necessarily doing the flash stuff that you may see from Alfie or Jack, but they're absolutely crucial in tying everything together.

I really feel that we need our back row to step up as that's where we can win and lose games.


Get good ball to Robson and I believe we see a different Umaga, and rampaging Fekitoa

[Rossm]

Don't discount the psychological kick in the team's balls by the injuries to Jack and Alfie. Jack was the team's talisman and Alfie was thunderously competitive.

[InBetweenWasp]

I know we rely on Jack for turnovers but of those still fit, Young, Gaskell, Rowlands, Oghre, Taylor and  Cruse have historically done pretty well too when it comes to winning turnover ball.  Even Gopperth hasn’t been too bad of old of sticking his head in when at 12.

So there’s no reason why we couldn’t, or shouldn’t be doing alright on turnover ball. 

I just think a well-organised, committed, solid defence solves most of our issues.