Wasps v Sale: Post match thoughts.

[WonkyWasp]

Plus 1

[mike909]

Regarding "being a supporter" As a Wasps supporter and a lifelong (parent and GP went pre WW2) Fulham supporter, I've known some ups and downs, and two of my favourite sporting memories both ended in defeat - a) our run to the Prem final last season and b) Fulham's run to the Euro (second level) Cup final....having both played brilliantly on the way

I will criticise both if it seems that within the available parameters, they are not delivering the sort of performances you'd expect. I don't expect Fulham to play like Man City - but Fulham fans are v keen on "playing good football" no kick and rush and they're on the verge of survival - but still playing to their principles

As for Wasps - the initial disappointment means an over reaction - least in my head. But that disappointment doesn't mean that I am not a supporter, that when possible, I'll come in person and I will always self identify as a Wasp. This can't mean that they are immune from criticism, and post this game - one that we ought to have won - it's not having a go at the club/team to wonder why we're not able to do the basics so often...such that Austin Healey is sounding incredulous..(and correct)

We looked better last week - though not loads - but Robson looked like his England experience wasn't "helpful"

Going forwards - this game might provide the jolt to the system that allows us to go out and play. As others have said, I want an entertaining Wasps - but that shouldn't mean playing poorly.

All teams have ups and downs, and we are low on confidence, have too many knackered/injured players and are still looking like the 23 is mainly those still standing rather than a rotation from choice. It's an odd season with Covid - listening to the Test Cricket players - I'd have gone mad on tour.....and I expect preparations and team "togetherness" has been affected, on top of our other troubles

Looking to next week already.

[Rossm]

One thing we really ought to do is sort out the line out. If we can guarantee that, at least most of the time, we retain and get good possession from our throws. Just that will do quite a bit for our collective confidence (IMO of course). All hookers should be able to hit their target. Are our lineouts too complicated with many shifts before the throw? If so, go back to basics. Short, medium and long - the latter never within our own 22 and initially no shifting, until we have them off pat. Hookers have too much pressure on them. At least make it easier for them. Fewer calls too, less chance of confusion. With better line out possession our plans will not go tits up so often.

A story from a Lions tour back when.........Moss Keane was one of the jumpers. The call came in. 'Oh feck' said Moss to his marker in the all black jersey, 'that's me again'. Mossey still won the ball 

[wasps]

I have no stats to back this up, but I think our lineout is worse in the opposition 22 then the rest of the pitch.

It seems weird cos opposition are less likely to compete on their own 5 as they are elsewhere on the pitch... But that's where we struggle the most.


Maybe it's pressure, maybe it's a rush of blood and maybe that's where we overcomplicate it too much.


We struggle to drive over from 5 metres like other teams do, but it may well be because we struggle with those 5 metre lineouts... We often seem to throw to the front, which I was always taught was a bad idea for a catch and drive as you'll get shoved into touch easier.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Having followed them through the dark days around 2012 I'll continue to follow them through this slump. I'm even more determined to get to home games when we can to help them out and I'm considering sponsoring a player, but that might be a bit too far financially to get past the wife as I'm now retired.

[DGP Wasp]

Been mulling this over for the past couple of days and interesting to read other people's observations.  Much talk about coaching, on-field leadership, individual errors, poor decision making, indiscipline and can't argue that each of those things has contributed, but why when the same players and coaches were getting those things so right just a few months ago are they getting them so wrong now?

I'm just a bit baffled as to where it has all gone so wrong so quickly.  Key guys like Launchbury, Young, Fekitoa, Barbeary, Robson etc have all returned in recent weeks, but there is not the merest hint that a corner is about to be turned.  This is the same coaching team and largely the same squad as last season after Dai left, and yet they have been unable to hit those heights or anything close.  It did seem to go wrong when we had that 2 week break when the plug was pulled on the Euro pool matches.  Prior to that we had bonus point wins against Exeter and away at Bath.  While elements of that Bath performance probably still give Costello nightmares, the way the team responded and played with confidence was very encouraging and hinted at a return to the form of the latter part of last season.  Since then we've had injuries and international call ups to contend with, but so have most teams in the league, and our form is going from bad to worse, and confidence is visibly eroding with every bad game.

The question for Lee and the coaches as well as the on field leaders has to be how they bring back the confidence of the second half of last season.  Not knowing what (if anything) is being done differently in training now compared to back then, I cannot second guess as to what this would be, but this team needs to find some self belief from somewhere.

[Brandnewtorugby]

Well the optimist in me sees the weather improving, returning ball carriers and international players having time to get back into team mode. We haven't lost in Europe, everything to play for, time for a change of heart.

[wasps]

For me, it's that we have too many young guys on the pitch at the same time.


When we're using Cruse and Taylor in the and matchday squad, then Oghre is an exciting wildcard in the back row.

When we've got Jack, Thomas and Brad starting in the back row, then Tom Willis and Alfie are fantastic prospects who can shine when given a chance.

When we've got Dan starting, then Porter and Wusty only need to their game together for 20 minutes or so


In the backs we had a potentially tired, off form Gopperth playing 12 (kicking seemed to suffer for sure).
We had an injured Fekitoa, and an inconsistent Sopoaga at full back.
None of this would have helped a young fly half who then started to struggle too.

In short, the back line was completely out of sorts.

Jimmy is still playing most of the time, so no idea what state he's in.
Fekitoa is only recently back from injury.
Miller played 1 or 2 games at 15, and Minozzi has now played 1.
I'm unconvinced about Kibirige, but in general wingers will always suffer if the back line is suffering.


I don't see it being resolved immediately.
But we need some consistency in the back line with our first choice players, not our squad options.


Unfortunately, every team has injuries and international call ups... We just seem to be struggling more than most with our individual decision making

[Mellie]

After 7 mins at 0-0 we had a penalty just outside the 22 in front of the posts. Dan took a quick one and messed up. 5 covering defenders and no support. Sale cleared Gopperth ran it back and passed into touch 10 meters back from original penalty. Ridiculous play and 3 points spurned.

Less than 30 seconds after the first yellow card Wasps lineout 10 metres from Sale line. Oghre throws but no proper lift for Joe and Sale win the ball unopposed. Absolute shambles. Shades of the final cock up. That's probably why we kicked for goal instead of going for lineouts after that.

In the move that lead to McGuigan's yellow, Gopperth tries a long pass, but Odogwu is on his shoulder and would have been through with Minozzi and Bassett in support against 1 player in the line if he'd popped it off. It was quite telegraphed, which is why McGuigan lunges for it but with his shoulders turned in there was no way he could have stopped Paulo on the burst.

The Odogwu penalty is debatable. Paulo is on the ball on his feet when the tackled player is still holding it in the air. As the ball goes to ground he becomes quite long and is pulled down while pulling it back. Ridley sees the ball  come back on Wasps side with Paulo now on the ground and gives a penalty. I don't think he realises he had hold of the ball for 2 seconds prior to that and could and maybe should have blown for not releasing.

Even if he had and we'd won the game it was still a badly managed, error strewn and undisciplined performance.

Incidentally, only 2 young players started so can't say it was through lack of experience.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I think the messed up lineout that lost the final for us still haunts that team. None more so than Oghre.

[hopwood]

I think we are where are, because we are where we are.
It couldn't be any other way....otherwise it would.

We are experiencing second season syndrome (if such a thing exists).
Last season we caught teams off-guard with a fresh approach, newly selected players, new coaching staff and a run of games that created a self perpetuating snowball of confidence all the way to the Final.

This season all the other teams, who are equally as capable and keen to progress, have had time to study our young, ambitious players and challenge everything they know about the game.
They have popped our bubble of momentum....and we have not yet found the answers to get it back up and running.

But most of all, for our newly promoted coaching staff...this is the first time that things aren't going their way after a very successful start.
So they, more than anyone, are having to deal with other teams counteracting their plays and strategies.
And for them...this is where they learn most about themselves and how well they can adapt...whilst keeping spirits high...along with a freedom to play the 'Wasps way'.

So personally...this season was a little predictable.
Especially with some of your key players away.
The true test will be whether over the coming months the coaches can find a way to reinvigorate the players.
They are all capable players....but they've hit a bit of a brick wall.
The younger players will be experiencing this for the first time in the Premiership and maybe starting to doubt themselves.
The coaches and senior players need to find a way to get the train back on the track...whilst enjoying playing rugby.

Over-reacting fans aren't going to make them play better.
This is a hurdle they were always going to have to face...and now they need to learn to come through it, as a cohesive squad.

Lee Blackett only has about a year of experience to call on as a Head Coach of a leading club.
Compare that to all the other coaches in the Premiership...and I would say it's time to cut him some slack.
Our situation needs perspective.
We were all blissfully happy with him last season...and should now get 100% behind him as he experiences his first hiccup.
Let's give him time to turn things around. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Rifleman Harris]

I think we are where are, because we are where we are.
It couldn't be any other way....otherwise it would.

We are experiencing second season syndrome (if such a thing exists).
Last season we caught teams off-guard with a fresh approach, newly selected players, new coaching staff and a run of games that created a self perpetuating snowball of confidence all the way to the Final.

This season all the other teams, who are equally as capable and keen to progress, have had time to study our young, ambitious players and challenge everything they know about the game.
They have popped our bubble of momentum....and we have not yet found the answers to get it back up and running.

But most of all, for our newly promoted coaching staff...this is the first time that things aren't going their way after a very successful start.
So they, more than anyone, are having to deal with other teams counteracting their plays and strategies.
And for them...this is where they learn most about themselves and how well they can adapt...whilst keeping spirits high...along with a freedom to play the 'Wasps way'.

So personally...this season was a little predictable.
Especially with some of your key players away.
The true test will be whether over the coming months the coaches can find a way to reinvigorate the players.
They are all capable players....but they've hit a bit of a brick wall.
The younger players will be experiencing this for the first time in the Premiership and maybe starting to doubt themselves.
The coaches and senior players need to find a way to get the train back on the track...whilst enjoying playing rugby.

Over-reacting fans aren't going to make them play better.
This is a hurdle they were always going to have to face...and now they need to learn to come through it, as a cohesive squad.

Lee Blackett only has about a year of experience to call on as a Head Coach of a leading club.
Compare that to all the other coaches in the Premiership...and I would say it's time to cut him some slack.
Our situation needs perspective.
We were all blissfully happy with him last season...and should now get 100% behind him as he experiences his first hiccup.
Let's give him time to turn things around. Rome wasn't built in a day.

+1 - a very measured response.  It is a contrast to the response at Notts County.  They got a new coach last Thursday, he had one training session Friday and one on Monday.  They lost last night and on Saturday (on penalties) and already there are calls for him to be replaced.  6 days, 2 training sessions!  That is an over reaction!!

[Shugs]

Bang on the money Hopwood.

[jamestaylor002]

I think we are where are, because we are where we are.
It couldn't be any other way....otherwise it would.

We are experiencing second season syndrome (if such a thing exists).
Last season we caught teams off-guard with a fresh approach, newly selected players, new coaching staff and a run of games that created a self perpetuating snowball of confidence all the way to the Final.

This season all the other teams, who are equally as capable and keen to progress, have had time to study our young, ambitious players and challenge everything they know about the game.
They have popped our bubble of momentum....and we have not yet found the answers to get it back up and running.

But most of all, for our newly promoted coaching staff...this is the first time that things aren't going their way after a very successful start.
So they, more than anyone, are having to deal with other teams counteracting their plays and strategies.
And for them...this is where they learn most about themselves and how well they can adapt...whilst keeping spirits high...along with a freedom to play the 'Wasps way'.

So personally...this season was a little predictable.
Especially with some of your key players away.
The true test will be whether over the coming months the coaches can find a way to reinvigorate the players.
They are all capable players....but they've hit a bit of a brick wall.
The younger players will be experiencing this for the first time in the Premiership and maybe starting to doubt themselves.
The coaches and senior players need to find a way to get the train back on the track...whilst enjoying playing rugby.

Over-reacting fans aren't going to make them play better.
This is a hurdle they were always going to have to face...and now they need to learn to come through it, as a cohesive squad.

Lee Blackett only has about a year of experience to call on as a Head Coach of a leading club.
Compare that to all the other coaches in the Premiership...and I would say it's time to cut him some slack.
Our situation needs perspective.
We were all blissfully happy with him last season...and should now get 100% behind him as he experiences his first hiccup.
Let's give him time to turn things around. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I fully agree with everything you have said there. We will come through this stronger no doubt.