Exeter player refuses jab

[Bloke in North Dorset]

This episode of David Spiegelhalter’s Risky Talk podcast is a bit old but they talk about vaccine hesitancy and people’s genuine concerns. It’s worth a listen because some serious people are looking in to the problem.

Calling them morons isn’t the best way to give people confidence.

https://riskytalk.libsyn.com/communicating-about-vaccines

PS I assume everyone knows who David is, he’s on the radio and TV often enough to be well known

Haven't a clue who David Spiegelhalter is. Never heard of him. Not a name I'd likely forget.

His job is to explain risk to the general public and he’s on the BBC quite a lot, especially More or Less, their numbers program.

Sir David John Spiegelhalter OBE FRS (born 16 August 1953) is a British statistician and Winton Professor of the Public Understanding of Risk in the Statistical Laboratory at the University of Cambridge[3] and a Fellow of Churchill College, Cambridge.[1][4][5][6] Spiegelhalter is an ISI highly cited researcher.

On 27 May 2020 he joined the board of the UK Statistics Authority as a non-executive director for a period of three years.[7]

[Neils]

Ah the BBC explains it.

[Rossm]

Thanks BiND.  Now I know who he is and I won't forget the name. However explaining risk to the general public is a bit like p*ssing into the wind.

[Raggs]

Calling them morons doesn't change their minds. But neither does presenting a ton of evidence (not done at the same time).

It seems to be similar to flat earth types, where they need to start finding holes in their own beliefs, and then seeking assistance themselves. Only with vaccines you'd normally need either a powerful life event (say catching it, and ending up with heart damage, or a blood clot, as many young and healthy athletes have had) to trigger that, since it's not something that you're going to easily understand unless you actually do a course in it.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

To hear something, to understand something, does not connect in a human brain to logical action. It does not lead to belief.

It is why, despite facing the death penalty, people still commit murder every day in the USA.

We actually encourage our fellow humans that belief is more important than realism or pragmatism, in so many walks of life. It cannot come as a shock to then find that there are deniers out there.

The only issue is what we do about that. Slade's decision is much the same as a drunk driver. They knew they were going to get drunk, and yet they made the decision in advance to risk the lives of other people.

The only issue is where belief negatively impacts on other people. I have no problem with a person believing that God wants them to wear black and gold hooped socks, and if they don't they will go to what for them is Hell. Because it has no impact on me at all. I can still think they are daft, but, whatever, if it makes the world go round and keeps them happy.

I really don't care if Slade catches Covid, ends up in hospital, and suffers life changing side effects. That's his problem. I baulk a little that it might then impact on the taxpayer, but money is only a construct anyway.

That, in some minor way being hospitalised might deny someone else of treatment, might irk me, but we all make similar decisions every day about diet, smoking etc. So I am down with that.

But, if he catches Covid and, not being 'protected' by a vaccine, is more likely to spread it, and as a results gives it to someone else and it negatively impacts on them, maybe kills them, that is where the line gets drawn. Sure, the chances are slim, just in the same way as thousands of people drive impaired without killing anybody else every day, but, for every person taking that decision not to get vaccinated, increases the chances of someone dying as a consequence. Not cool, not cool at all.

[Nigel Med]

The fact that he's sat down, decided he won't have the vaccine but then also thought it would be best to tell everyone this is a large national newspaper just absolutely beggars belief.

Don't have the vaccine, fine, but don't broadcast that in a national newspaper when you are a public figure and a role model to others.

Totally agree. It's everyone's right to refuse the vaccine but as a public figure and role model for young rugby supporters he needs to keep his mouth shut if he's got no better reason than "I just think there hasn’t been anywhere near enough testing to deem it safe". You "think"? Have you actually done any research to back that up or are you just regurgitating tosh from another conspiracy theory idiot on social media? Incidentally if he had posted that on social media it would have been deleted as it's misleading information.

Hilarious that he then goes on to mention how disappointed he was to miss out on selection for the B&I Lions. Is he not aware that the UK Government has given special dispensation for the entire squad to be vaccinated before they leave for South Africa? I believe they've already had their first jab. I doubt very much whether he's be allowed to go if he had been selected and persisted in his refusal to be vaccinated. He'd be a liability to the entire squad.

Most vaccinations- indeed all medication- has side effects. I've had both doses of the Astra Zeneca, felt a bit crap for a few days and my arm was sore after the first. No after effects following the second. The potential risks from the jab are very minor indeed, you are far more likely to lose your life in a road accident than from having the vaccine, don't tell Slade that, he'll refuse to get in a car for the rest of his life.

[Skippy]

Disclosure: I've been type1 diabetic for 44 years and have know no other life. I was two year's old when diagnosed. My elder daughter was diagnosed as type1 just 5 weeks ago, despite there being only a 6% probability of such an outcome.

On the covid front, it's all pretty emotional stuff, which is why we get some passionate views. A lot of vaccine hesitancy is down to nervousness and unease about the unknown. At least in countries where it hasn't be hijacked as a political identity issue. As more people get the vaccine, it becomes the cultural norm. And when it becomes the cultural norm, especially amongst peer groups, the more people start to think that its ok. All of which underlines how humans struggle to understand risk.

When Slade was offered his vaccine back in Feb, he would have been pretty much the outlier amongst his peers. In fact he probably still is, as we've yet to roll out the vaccine to those in their 20s. It'll be interesting to see whether he changes his mind as more of his age group get their shots.

In terms of the risk he faces, it's probably similar to anyone else his age. This is despite him being a Type1 diabetic. The reasons are that he is still fairly young, his diabetes is almost certainly well controlled (otherwise his career would have tanked) now and will have been in the past. After all, he's been diabetic in an age where the treatment is light years away from where it was 40-50 years ago.

The risk for type 1s steps up significantly if the person has notable diabetic complications -- ie a clear co-morbidity. We're talking here about kidney issues, treatment for retinopathy (eye issues) and significant neuropathy (nerve damage). These are more prevalent in older type 1 diabetics and not just because of age. It's a lot to do with the treatments that were available 40-50 years ago. A time when syringes were made of glass, insulin came from pigs or cows, sugar levels were checked by pissing in a test tube and dropping a couple of tablets in and diets were highly restricted with lots of Red List (ie banned) foods like puddings, chocolates and pretty much any biscuit that might be considered tasty. Today, there are no syringes, just pens or pumps (although we still all use needles). Sugars are monitored in real time by smart devices. Insulin comes from the lab and works brilliantly. And, there are no Red List foods any more.

We've all been on our own journeys through covid. I found it pretty stressful, particularly the worry that it might take me out and how that would affect my family. I got my shot as soon as I could, and found that to be pretty emotional, especially once the first 21 days had passed and protection started kicking in. Second shot was just over a couple of weeks ago.  Some mild reaction, but none that affected by diabetes. Not everyone has the same experience, and there are diabetics that see their sugar levels go haywire after their vaccine. But that simply down to the body's immune response kicking in and giving rise to the sugar level challenges that come with being poorly.

As for the publication of Slade's choice, that really should be questioned given that his views could influence others. A poor editorial decision in my view.

[Rossm]

Great post, Skippy. I remember you at Loftus Road - pint in one hand, needle in the other

[Sliminator]

I'm happy enough for people to skeptical of the Government and the media. But I cannot understand that they blindly believe completely off the wall theories without giving it at least the same level of skepticism...

[MarleyWasp]

I'm happy enough for people to skeptical of the Government and the media. But I cannot understand that they blindly believe completely off the wall theories without giving it at least the same level of skepticism...

I saw an interesting video on Facebook about 5g conspiracy theorists and the psychology behind it: https://www.facebook.com/1500760100238034/posts/2676637005983665/

[Trevs Big Tackle]

[Neils]

I thought WTF then chuckled - thanks.

[InBetweenWasp]

I think I’m with BrackenandMacken and Nigel Med on this.  Firstly, why does Slade believe it’s important to let everyone else know he’s choosing not to get the vaccine.  Secondly, why does the Telegraph Reporter believe it’s newsworthy?

If you’re genuinely worried about adverse side-effects because it’s been pushed through the system at an accelerated rate then fair enough.  But at least give it some context/balance.

“It might sound a bit backwards as from the numbers so far, statistically it looks like it’s safer to get the vaccine that it is to take the coach journey to an Away game and is as safe as drinking half a bottle of wine.  Whilst I’m happy to jump on the bus with the lads and enjoy a few drinks on the way back, I am still going to stay away from this one.”

Or

“I’ve recently become a father and even though there was 4x more chance of my other half having died during child birthday than me dying as a direct result of the vaccine I was way less worried about my other half in child birth than me having the vaccine.  That’s a bit bonkers really, isn’t it?”

[COYW15]

To paraphrase Liverpool FC owner John W Henry: 'What do you think they're smoking over there at Sandy Park?'

[MarleyWasp]

On a similar note to Trev's picture...