Wasps v Leicester: Post Match Thoughts

[mike909]

Yesterday really was about getting the BP needed and hopefully winning, but in that order. Given overnight to think, my observations about the team and the set up are these.

Firstly, I do agree with Lee re the pressure of the second season happening without break. We surfed ok on the success from 2020, but as and when lack of puff and injuries struck, we were going to end up on the wrong side of results. Contrast our win vs Bath in Jan to recent losses in the last quarter. The top two inches was under as much pressure as the physical

Secondly, the long term loss of resources bought specifically - and I'll concentrate on Mills as an example - meant that the resources that would support the younger and less experienced players wasn't there and a young player like Jacob was having a hard time without the experience of Mills outside him to guide.

Thirdly, the ongoing injury problems - the list of players out is enough to make you cry. S&C needs to look at itself perhaps?

Overall, we do fail too often, the "pragmatism" test. Yesterday, again, we failed to clear our lines - and with a good lineout, why were we risking more scrums by cocking up? And we were poor at providing the ref with a good picture on the breakdown (I thought he was wrong - but that's like too many weeks) and got penalties awarded, again, against.

It's great to play with freedom, I loved the Bath win in Jan....but I would have valued a win yesterday by being pragmatic in places.....Looking forwards, physical and mental rest will be valuable and a clear thought about the balance of flair and practicality is probably needed. Alongside some thoughts about defence....

[Mellie]

Overall, we do fail too often, the "pragmatism" test.

This can definitely be said of Jacob and occasionally Malakai. Keeping the ball alive is fine when there's a good possibility but running from deep and throwing risky offloads when nothing is really on is asking for trouble.

Jacob sometimes looks like the brilliant player at age grade rugby. He wanders around in his 22 looking for an opportunity to attack. At age grade he'd have time and space to do something daring and use his skills to get away with it but at Prem level he often gets thumped and loses the ball. Once in a while something may come off but not that often. There's no way he could do that at international level. Next season I hope he has pragmatism in his armoury plus the ability to spot something audacious that can be executed accurately.

[Heathen]

Yesterday really was about getting the BP needed and hopefully winning, but in that order. Given overnight to think, my observations about the team and the set up are these.

Firstly, I do agree with Lee re the pressure of the second season happening without break. We surfed ok on the success from 2020, but as and when lack of puff and injuries struck, we were going to end up on the wrong side of results. Contrast our win vs Bath in Jan to recent losses in the last quarter. The top two inches was under as much pressure as the physical

Secondly, the long term loss of resources bought specifically - and I'll concentrate on Mills as an example - meant that the resources that would support the younger and less experienced players wasn't there and a young player like Jacob was having a hard time without the experience of Mills outside him to guide.

Thirdly, the ongoing injury problems - the list of players out is enough to make you cry. S&C needs to look at itself perhaps?

Overall, we do fail too often, the "pragmatism" test. Yesterday, again, we failed to clear our lines - and with a good lineout, why were we risking more scrums by cocking up? And we were poor at providing the ref with a good picture on the breakdown (I thought he was wrong - but that's like too many weeks) and got penalties awarded, again, against.

It's great to play with freedom, I loved the Bath win in Jan....but I would have valued a win yesterday by being pragmatic in places.....Looking forwards, physical and mental rest will be valuable and a clear thought about the balance of flair and practicality is probably needed. Alongside some thoughts about defence....

Very much my thoughts as well. When you look at the top sides, they all have very solid scrums and game plans which their players understand. They do not seem to panic either.

Everything has to improve from bottom up - most of it is marginal gains that make the difference between winning and losing.

Coaching and s&c need some tweaks. Who is our defence coach next season?? Player mentality and focused minds are needed.

We have some very good established players. We have some good youngsters who need careful management going forward. Our pack and physicality need beefing up.

We are probably around 85% of where we need to be to successful again.

To go back to our glory days - remember the mantra : DEFENCE wins championships!!

And as footnote, aside of the result, it was great to be back at the Ricoh yesterday.

Also worth looking at is the full GP Table : tries F and A probably sums us up.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/gallagher-premiership-rugby/league-table/

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Yes, we are ninth in the table for conceding tries. But, for total points against, we were 12th. That tells you we gave away a lot of kickable penalties, probably more than any other side. If you think harder about it, we probably gave away a lot of penalties that led to tries as well, which probably accounts for the excessive try count.

My guess is that was the main difference between us and, say, Sale.

Is it specific players giving them away? My guess is yes.

[JonnyD]

At one point JTA was second highest in the league on the penalty count and that was with him only playing 20 mins a game - seems to have improved.
Gaskell and Rowlands must be up there.

Wondering if there is a way you can work out tries conceded as a result of a penalty - we have conceded so many and teams have marched up the field with the penalty kick and scored from the next few phases or lineout drive - discipline has been a major issue al year as well as our defence

[Chunky24]

Yes, we are ninth in the table for conceding tries. But, for total points against, we were 12th. That tells you we gave away a lot of kickable penalties, probably more than any other side. If you think harder about it, we probably gave away a lot of penalties that led to tries as well, which probably accounts for the excessive try count.

My guess is that was the main difference between us and, say, Sale.

Is it specific players giving them away? My guess is yes.

According to prem rugby stats Sale have given the most penalties away of all clubs and nearly a record number of yellow cards.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/gallagher-premiership-rugby/statistics/team-stats/

[Heathen]

When you look at the analysis tries F/A average per match was 3/3.26.

13 of our games ended with the score within 7 points.

A further 3 with 10 points.

The other 6 were :
Glaws L 40-24, Chiefs W 34-5 (against a weaker Chiefs team), Quins L 17-49, Tigers L 27-8, Bears L 37-20, Chiefs L 43-13.

I think someone has already done the analysis of how many games we lost after leading at 77 mins.

[Chunky24]

Yes, we are ninth in the table for conceding tries. But, for total points against, we were 12th. That tells you we gave away a lot of kickable penalties, probably more than any other side. If you think harder about it, we probably gave away a lot of penalties that led to tries as well, which probably accounts for the excessive try count.

My guess is that was the main difference between us and, say, Sale.

Is it specific players giving them away? My guess is yes.

According to prem rugby stats Sale have given the most penalties away of all clubs and nearly a record number of yellow cards.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/gallagher-premiership-rugby/statistics/team-stats/

And Wasps only conceded 5 more penalties than the previous season, I imagine alot of the previous season were jackal penalties that we overlooked as for every one of those penalties there were a number of turnovers probably whereas most of this year's have been stupid ones!

[Rossm]

Yes, we are ninth in the table for conceding tries. But, for total points against, we were 12th. That tells you we gave away a lot of kickable penalties, probably more than any other side. If you think harder about it, we probably gave away a lot of penalties that led to tries as well, which probably accounts for the excessive try count.

My guess is that was the main difference between us and, say, Sale.

Is it specific players giving them away? My guess is yes.

According to prem rugby stats Sale have given the most penalties away of all clubs and nearly a record number of yellow cards.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/gallagher-premiership-rugby/statistics/team-stats/

And Wasps only conceded 5 more penalties than the previous season, I imagine alot of the previous season were jackal penalties that we overlooked as for every one of those penalties there were a number of turnovers probably whereas most of this year's have been stupid ones!

I'm not a great one for stats, but that is interesting. If someone had asked me, I would have sworn we had given away an absolute shedload Perhaps we don't notice them as much when we are winning.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

It is an issue where you concede them, your half or theirs.

[mike909]

We are probably around 85% of where we need to be to successful again.

That's fair. I do think that just having a break and allowing the squad some prep will go half way to improving matters. Just getting the fitness together and allowing Robson. Umaga, Mills Fek and a back three of Basset, Minozzi and Udogwu (say) served by an effective pack would worry most teams.....

[Shugs]

Agreed Steve - he's a real workhorse. For me, one of the players I think will really kick on next year is Cardall. He's looked really physical in the last couple of games (admittedly coming on lateish) but I think he'll play a big part along with Stooke who will bring the advantage of being available all season.

[Rossm]

It is an issue where you concede them, your half or theirs.

That did occur to me but only after I'd posted.

[baldpaul101]

Clearly Wasps have the ability to be a top 4 side. They just need to find the 10% - 20% required to consistently delivery every week.
Having more players available more often & having those playing fully fit, would have made a huge difference to a lot of those narrow defeats. I assume most clubs will have a season review, where the approach to next season can be properly planned? Hopefully some answers to the injury issue can be explored. Either that or get the Ricoh & the training ground exorcised!

[matelot22]

As Wombles alluded to, the centre pairing hasn't clicked, but I wonder how many different combos we've been forced to try this season? It would be great for Mills and Fekitoa to get a good run together next season and hopefully bring in a settled and balanced partnership. Any of the statos out there know how many different pairings used?