England team- 2 subs

[JonnyD]

All a bit of a mess.
I agree playing a stronger side wouldn’t have taught us much like the NZ Tonga game but I also think we need more value in the shirt. Getting a cap for your country should be almost the pinnacle of your career and captaining the side even more so. Realistically the likes of McNally at 30 isn’t going to be anywhere near the squad with everyone’s available, maybe a few of the other forwards too. Is Ludlow going to be near the 6 shirt with a full squad?

6-2 was a mess and the backs never fired without being to adapt tactically without any more sub options. Umaga not great but doubt they practised much with him there and poor old Dan.
Steward had a good game at the back but I fear he hasn’t got the extra ten percent to be a world beater - absolutely solid like mike brown and so much safer already than Daly but Malins starting there would have made more sense

[JonnyD]

As a side note I think Channel 4 are still very wide of the mark with their coverage.

I know they have some new guys learning the ropes and they are forming a diverse team but they are not good enough presenters or pundits for terrestrial fans and don’t offer enough expert analysis at all for the more regular fan.

Channel 4 persist with Waterman and Ojo and I’m not seeing much improvement, Ashton similarly amazes me how often he’s asked to provide tv coverage - they all make Ugo look very good!
Very different to the Lions coverage yesterday where the team gathered we’re superb

[hopwood]

As a side note I think Channel 4 are still very wide of the mark with their coverage.

I know they have some new guys learning the ropes and they are forming a diverse team but they are not good enough presenters or pundits for terrestrial fans and don’t offer enough expert analysis at all for the more regular fan.

Channel 4 persist with Waterman and Ojo and I’m not seeing much improvement, Ashton similarly amazes me how often he’s asked to provide tv coverage - they all make Ugo look very good!
Very different to the Lions coverage yesterday where the team gathered we’re superb

Agree 100%.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

That game was a mess. Not sure what Eddie intended to get out of it. Maybe to see just how bad everybody could be out of position? USA showed good coaching and commitment, but simply lacked the class needed.

Frankly, I wasn't impressed by the Randall/Smith pairing. Neither was bad as such, but not really the class I was expecting.

I enjoyed the Italy v Scotland U20s game far more.

[Shugs]

I'd love to know what goes through Jones head. Is Malins ever likely to feature on the wing - surely not. Is he probably the best FB Jones has - yes. Let's play him wing. I understand he wanted a look at Steward - so play him there v USA and Malins v Can. Are we ever going to struggle up front v USA? No. I know - I'll stack the bench 6-2. A direct consequence of which is the game becoming a total sham in terms of a learning exercise. The fans and players deserve better.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I'd love to know what goes through Jones head. Is Malins ever likely to feature on the wing - surely not. Is he probably the best FB Jones has - yes. Let's play him wing. I understand he wanted a look at Steward - so play him there v USA and Malins v Can. Are we ever going to struggle up front v USA? No. I know - I'll stack the bench 6-2. A direct consequence of which is the game becoming a total sham in terms of a learning exercise. The fans and players deserve better.

^^ This

The players go along with it because they get a cap. But everybody loses.

[mike909]

I'd love to know what goes through Jones head. Is Malins ever likely to feature on the wing - surely not. Is he probably the best FB Jones has - yes. Let's play him wing. I understand he wanted a look at Steward - so play him there v USA and Malins v Can. Are we ever going to struggle up front v USA? No. I know - I'll stack the bench 6-2. A direct consequence of which is the game becoming a total sham in terms of a learning exercise. The fans and players deserve better.

^^ This

The players go along with it because they get a cap. But everybody loses.

This. The areas of selection that are probably an issue for England are 8,9,10,12 and 15 in terms of who ought to play 8 - if Billy is wandering around like in the 6Ns, we need to know if Dan can start and control a test, who plays 10/12 in case of injury/loss of form and who ought to start at 15? And having done what Shugs said - what do we know now?

The worst of it is that  - as noted - we could have started Malins at 15, Dan at 9 and (my pref) Lawrence at 13 - his regular club position. Tom Willis could have started 8 - if not excluded from the squad and Devoto at 12. And that would demonstrate a number of outcomes - if successful - that could work towards RWC 23.

What goes through Jones' head......whilst a bit of a hatchet job - this was always of interest..... https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/108275798/new-book-reveals-how-eddie-jones-loses-assistant-coaches-and-dressing-rooms

"He has bad managerial skills. I couldn't believe the way he talked to people in front of other people. I've managed enough people to know that there are some things you just can't do to people. You can't take away their dignity," former Wallabies fullback Roger Gould said of his brief role as one of Jones' assistant coaches in 2004.

[will311293]

As a side note I think Channel 4 are still very wide of the mark with their coverage.

I know they have some new guys learning the ropes and they are forming a diverse team but they are not good enough presenters or pundits for terrestrial fans and don’t offer enough expert analysis at all for the more regular fan.

Channel 4 persist with Waterman and Ojo and I’m not seeing much improvement, Ashton similarly amazes me how often he’s asked to provide tv coverage - they all make Ugo look very good!
Very different to the Lions coverage yesterday where the team gathered we’re superb

I know the lead presenter on C4 for the game sits on Transfer Centre for Sky Sports so maybe more adapt to Football.

[Rossm]

After all this discussion, I don't think anybody has actually congratulated Jacob on his first England cap. So - "CONGRATULATIONS JACOB".

[will311293]

After all this discussion, I don't think anybody has actually congratulated Jacob on his first England cap. So - "CONGRATULATIONS JACOB".

True! congrats Jacob, fingers crossed we see all four starting next week!

[coddy]

I know the lead presenter on C4 for the game sits on Transfer Centre for Sky Sports so maybe more adapt to Football.

Who was the co-commentator yesterday who at one stage called the England Scrum Half " Harry Redknapp"

[hopwood]

I'd love to know what goes through Jones head. Is Malins ever likely to feature on the wing - surely not. Is he probably the best FB Jones has - yes. Let's play him wing. I understand he wanted a look at Steward - so play him there v USA and Malins v Can. Are we ever going to struggle up front v USA? No. I know - I'll stack the bench 6-2. A direct consequence of which is the game becoming a total sham in terms of a learning exercise. The fans and players deserve better.

^^ This

The players go along with it because they get a cap. But everybody loses.

This. The areas of selection that are probably an issue for England are 8,9,10,12 and 15 in terms of who ought to play 8 - if Billy is wandering around like in the 6Ns, we need to know if Dan can start and control a test, who plays 10/12 in case of injury/loss of form and who ought to start at 15? And having done what Shugs said - what do we know now?

The worst of it is that  - as noted - we could have started Malins at 15, Dan at 9 and (my pref) Lawrence at 13 - his regular club position. Tom Willis could have started 8 - if not excluded from the squad and Devoto at 12. And that would demonstrate a number of outcomes - if successful - that could work towards RWC 23.

What goes through Jones' head......whilst a bit of a hatchet job - this was always of interest..... https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/108275798/new-book-reveals-how-eddie-jones-loses-assistant-coaches-and-dressing-rooms

"He has bad managerial skills. I couldn't believe the way he talked to people in front of other people. I've managed enough people to know that there are some things you just can't do to people. You can't take away their dignity," former Wallabies fullback Roger Gould said of his brief role as one of Jones' assistant coaches in 2004.

All of these above.