Ask the Ref - Bath Board

[Neils]

ASK THE REF 26 October new

Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)

Date: 27 October, 2021 08:20


I was at “Ask the Ref” with Tony Spreadbury, laid on by BRSC, last night. Below is a summary of his presentation.

• He explained the Global Law Trials. He spent time particularly on the 50:22 and latching. He stated that 2 experimental laws had not been adopted in the Northern hemisphere: red card “exchanged” for a replacement after 20 minutes- N Hemisphere Unions did not agree with this idea; Captain’s challenge – found to be too vexatious in S Hemisphere, so dropped. These are on 1 year trial. They may, or may not, become permanently adopted.

• Jackal Clearout- following Tom Willis’ awful injury v Italy, a World Rugby review of jackal clearout. Result: crocodile roll still permitted, but “targeting” lower limbs penalised.

• Trapped tackler. Tackler must be on correct side or roll away. However, actions to hold tackler in to be penalised.

• TMO Protocol. He explained the TMO Protocol (review for Try/No Try goes back only 2 phases) and showed some cases where the protocol was ignored -with correct/incorrect results. He asked opinion of the audience – “Stick to the Protocol, or get the right result?”. Answer: (overwhelmingly) “get the right result.” He then said he would ignore that- not sure if he was joking!

• Bristol match. He acknowledged that TMO got 2 decisions wrong- Ojomoh’s try should have stood/Luatua try should have been denied for Randall’s knock on at the ruck.

• Asked what happens if referee error alters the outcome of a match he said he would drop referees whose mistakes were responsible for altering the result.

• Match reviews. A new initiative this season. A recording of incidents from selected matches (according to a Theme of the Week) is sent to every club to illustrate a refereeing point. Individual club feedbacks are still given. Referees discuss games they have just officiated with DORs over the post -match meal.

• Team “Pods”. Refs/ARs/TMO work in teams of 4 for a set of 8 matches in a row to build team understanding.

• Performance dashboard. Each Refs match performance is scored on a dashboard in 3 columns – Green, Amber, Red. Green= correct decision, Amber = infringement missed, Red= incorrect decision. This is used for feedback & training (also for appointments to matches).

• Appointment to matches. The best performing refs/ Pods are assigned to the “harder” matches – especially the end of Season Playoffs.

• Offside. Asked for a progress report on the Offside clampdown (announced Nov 19) he said he thought Refs did well on controlling space and speed of defence, but still have work to do keeping defence behind the back foot.

• Tony Spreadbury leaves the RFU at the end of November 21 to take up a role as head of European Referees. He intends to introduce standardisations into European Competition similar to those applying in England.

• There was (much) more, particularly in answer to questions. Spreaders talks quickly and I could not note everything- I believe I have covered the key points. If anybody has a burning query, post it here and I will jog my memory to see if I can answer.


PG

Lifted from Bath Board with thanks.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Thanks.

A very interesting initiative and got to be good for the game for refs to interact with fans.

[WonkyWasp]

It's actually confirming what we had suspected, ie 'the best performing refs/pods are  assigned to the 'harder'  matches.  By 'harder' matches I presume that means 'players who do not care for the laws, behave badly,  are overly aggressive, etc.  Which explains why we get flippen' Hamish!

[matelot22]

Interesting post, thanks Neils.

[JonnyD]

Not sure that two phase rule is being followed for disallowing tries at all.

[mike909]

"• Jackal Clearout- following Tom Willis’ awful injury v Italy, a World Rugby review of jackal clearout. Result: crocodile roll still permitted, but “targeting” lower limbs penalised"

(Obviously Jack Willis)

Interesting POV from a SH commentator on this - linked to the reffing of the breakdown

Allow me a diversion here to demonstrate the stupidity of referees warning players against infringing rather than penalising them. Let’s all hope Jack Willis’ injury is not too serious, and he is back on the park soon, but at the ruck where he was hurt you clearly hear the referee call “no 21”.

Willis has come in from the side and his shoulders are below his hips. Pick an infringement. Blow the whistle immediately and Jack Willis is safe.

We do not need to outlaw the roll, just referee the breakdown correctly and the roll disappears. Calls for the crocodile roll to be banned address the symptom and not the cause.

And as a wider point - warning players looks like almost encouraging them to push the Laws. At least to me watching a lot of Prem games and several over the last few weeks have included such issues to the point where the BT commentators have brought such a point up more than once.

[Raggs]

Warnings are an odd one. In some situations, as a lot is down to interpretation, I appreciate the ref warnings. The player can legitimately believe they have a right to do what they are doing, but the ref has a different view, there a warning is fine.

What I don't like is warnings when they're clearly in the wrong, or they ignore the warning for the first and second time, and only then stop, having ruined the ruck already.

[mike909]

Warnings are an odd one. In some situations, as a lot is down to interpretation, I appreciate the ref warnings. The player can legitimately believe they have a right to do what they are doing, but the ref has a different view, there a warning is fine.

What I don't like is warnings when they're clearly in the wrong, or they ignore the warning for the first and second time, and only then stop, having ruined the ruck already.

It was the second issue that's been an issue for the BT commentators because as you say - it ruins the ruck. My view is that early pinging tends to stop even attempting to disrupt/break Laws. And  - not referring to Jack specifically - it does appear safer to avoid warnings and get players to abide by the Laws as written

[Rossm]

I really don't like the continual warnings from the ref. The player knows exactly what he's doing and he's already ruined the ruck - job done. No more than one warning should be sufficient. After that the player's taking the wee wee and should be penalised or carded immediately. As far as I am concerned that goes for Wasps' players as well.

[andermt]

Saw a post on twitter that there looked to have been another ref forum in Exeter, wonder if there are any planned for a bit further north?

On the subject of warnings, yet another of the ones that annoy me in the Glaws/Exeter match tonight. Ref calls don’t play the 9 at Exeter, they play the 9 no sanction, and they turn the ball over seconds later.

[Brandnewtorugby]

Does any other sport fiddle with their rules as much as rugby fiddles with its 'laws'?

[hookender]

Does any other sport fiddle with their rules as much as rugby fiddles with its 'laws'?

Interestingly , was watching my daughter’s football match  a couple of weeks ago and her side had two players sin binned for 10 mins for dissent. Those watching all looked amazed, so must be trialling this .