Match Thread

[Raggs]

Watching through the first half, and whilst Hartley has been good in attack and defence, he's been dire on restarts. Don't know if Falcons are targeting him (they probably are by now), but it's been really poor. On what I've seen so far I'd love to see him on the bench perhaps, but we'd need to try and keep the general kicks away from him (or better drill what needs doing).

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Watched it now. Our line came up disjointed many times. Both centres regularly had the wrong gap between them (often too wide), made worse by Rekeiti Ma’asi White over running the line with no (back row) support to cover the gap he made, an open invitation to run in that gap, leaving Hartley to cover too wide a gap..

Rekeiti Ma’asi White and Olly Hartley also seemed to swap around a bit. Rekeiti Ma’asi White was often away too early (offside, but not punished), sometimes as much as 5m ahead of the rest of the line.

Some good plays and players (ours I mean) in the game, but our team were clearly more comfortable in attack rather than in defence. Alo looked quite weak in defence, and easily stepped around (who would willingly run into him anyway?), but does look leaner than I last saw him. It would be interesting to see our tackle stats, but compared to our current first team props, I can see why Alo isn't getting the game time.

Mario Pichardie kept working off the ball, playing sweeper, but darting forwards to cover gaps before they even emerged. He also put in some great tackles. He put paid to a few of their obviously coached moves before they really got off the ground. I have that feeling that he is one of those players that has a natural feel for the game, the type we sadly lack in the main squad, playing 'heads up' rugby.

[HDAWG]

Mario Pichardie kept working off the ball, playing sweeper, but darting forwards to cover gaps before they even emerged. He also put in some great tackles. He put paid to a few of their obviously coached moves before they really got off the ground. I have that feeling that he is one of those players that has a natural feel for the game, the type we sadly lack in the main squad, playing 'heads up' rugby.

With Thomas Young leaving is there a chance he's seen as a spiritual successor? Carr and Morris are good depth, but he sounds like the fast Flanker we'd want to recruit. Unless Curran is already that.

Also there's a lot of hype around Hartley, is Ma’asi White as exciting a prospect? From other comments it sounds he's not quite where Hartley is in terms of progress.

[Raggs]

Mario Pichardie kept working off the ball, playing sweeper, but darting forwards to cover gaps before they even emerged. He also put in some great tackles. He put paid to a few of their obviously coached moves before they really got off the ground. I have that feeling that he is one of those players that has a natural feel for the game, the type we sadly lack in the main squad, playing 'heads up' rugby.

With Thomas Young leaving is there a chance he's seen as a spiritual successor? Carr and Morris are good depth, but he sounds like the fast Flanker we'd want to recruit. Unless Curran is already that.

Also there's a lot of hype around Hartley, is Ma’asi White as exciting a prospect? From other comments it sounds he's not quite where Hartley is in terms of progress.

Wasn't really impressed with Ma'asi White. Haven't been in the extended highlights on his loan club either.

He never really seemed to hit full acceleration/top speed in a carry.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Mario Pichardie kept working off the ball, playing sweeper, but darting forwards to cover gaps before they even emerged. He also put in some great tackles. He put paid to a few of their obviously coached moves before they really got off the ground. I have that feeling that he is one of those players that has a natural feel for the game, the type we sadly lack in the main squad, playing 'heads up' rugby.

With Thomas Young leaving is there a chance he's seen as a spiritual successor? Carr and Morris are good depth, but he sounds like the fast Flanker we'd want to recruit. Unless Curran is already that.

Also there's a lot of hype around Hartley, is Ma’asi White as exciting a prospect? From other comments it sounds he's not quite where Hartley is in terms of progress.

Ma’asi White doesn't seem to have a full match stamina yet, so I think he needs to get on with some track training, and doesn't have the positional awareness. Give him the ball though, and he is explosive. A faster version of Alfie.

Hartley did not impress me defensively. Reminds me a lot of a young Daly, but bigger maybe?

Both of them have a lot to learn about Premiership level rugby. If you compare them to Atkinson coming through (age-wize), Atkinson is a lot more savvy, switched on for this level. I think Covid will not have helped, so let's hope they can get their heads down and work hard on improving their defence. Tackling, position, line speed cohesion, highball receipt, and kick chase. They have the basics, but need refinement.

[Raggs]

Thought I saw Hartley miss one tackle, but put his shoulder in a few times, stopped Gary Graham nicely, and smashed their winger into touch with a great tackle.

There was a definite disconnect between forwards/backs at the set piece though, Falcons ran very similar moves off the lineout several times and cut straight through. Think Hartley would look better in a more settled team around him. System errors are more likely to occur in a thrown together side like this one, whereas individually I thought he looked fine.

[JonnyD]

I agree the covid element is an important consideration with these guys.
Hartley and Atkinson came through together but Atkinson was straight into first team action whereas Hartley hardly played last year. The same for Ma’asi White, he was at school last year and hardly played any rugby at all, now straight into mens rugby. It may take a while for these guys to re-acclimatise.

Talk of Young’s replacement at 7 is a good discussion. I believe Pichardie has the makings of a great apprentice. Seems to read the game well and has an appetite for getting over the ball and getting his head where it hurts. That turnover on about 22 mins was very Youngesque.
The other two who stand out to me are Tunney and Cripps who will probably be too small to play 6/8 eventually. Tunney looks a very intelligent player, seems to make good decisions and not many mistakes, Cripps is explosive and more like a back but if he can beef up a little could be a great link player at 7.
Curran must be being seen as a Haskell type 6 and then there are Jakobson, Brown and Florenstein who also be strong contenders in the 6/8 shirt moving forward.
They might not all work out and we might not be able to keep all of them but the future looks bright.

Shame Bell didn’t get on at second row because the cupboard isn’t quite as well stocked in the engine room and that can be said across the whole country. As Lee Blackett said, there appears to be an absence of tall people making babies about 20 years ago.

[wasps]

Assuming he returns as good as ever, do we expect Jack to be playing 7 next season?

We have strong options at 6 in the squad (Shields and Fifita).
Tom Willis has become our first choice No.8 in my opinion.
As such, Jack at 7 makes sense.


There can't be many players better to learn breakdown work from than Jack Willis at the club

[Raggs]

Whoever has better acceleration can where the 7 shirt. The only role exclusive to a 7 is breaking off the open side of the scrum. Otherwise the number isn't important.

[backdoc]

I would expect Jack W to lose some pace because of the injuries. He is struggling a bit with his rehab currently. I doubt if his return will be as rapid this time.

[wasps]

I would expect Jack W to lose some pace because of the injuries. He is struggling a bit with his rehab currently. I doubt if his return will be as rapid this time.

Sadly, I'm not surprised.

I'm always massively impressed with any athlete who suffers a serious injury and is able to come back and compete at the same level.... Both physically and mentally.

When a player suffers multiple major injuries in a relatively short space of time, I'm always expecting to hear the worst.

[backdoc]

I think Jack has a very good 'head'. The best athlete I have seen in dealing with injury was Andy Farrell. I think Jack is of or near that calibre.

Swelling of the joint with activity at this stage is understandably concerning for him though - it suggests increased stress across the articular cartilage ? maybe a biomechanical problem with alignment. Hopefully it can be rehab'd.

Jack deserves a break - the best talent I have seen since the professional era at Wasps.