No England thread?

[WonkyWasp]

The really sad thing is that when he was in their Academy he was absolutely brilliant but played a clean game  no nastiness, no dirty play.  As soon as he was in with Sarries seniors his behaviour changed. There was no need as his playing was still as brilliant and he just didn't need to play nasty; he could get just the same results by being his young amazing academy self.  Such a shame. So unnecessary.

[HDAWG]

You guys are making it sound like Itoje is Bakkies Both or something. It's just what you get with top level forwards, seeing how much you can get away with discipline wise. South Africa, Australia, Ireland, Wales NZ etc. All do it. He's world class and easily one of the best locks in the world. Up there with Etzebeth, Retallick and Henderson. And this is someone who still despises Saracens with a passion.

[Rossm]

You guys are making it sound like Itoje is Bakkies Both or something. It's just what you get with top level forwards, seeing how much you can get away with discipline wise. South Africa, Australia, Ireland, Wales NZ etc. All do it. He's world class and easily one of the best locks in the world. Up there with Etzebeth, Retallick and Henderson. And this is someone who still despises Saracens with a passion.

Yes. But I still think of him as 'the pom-pom girl'. 😄

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Good point Shugs.
No highlights outside of youtube and Amazon only will have reduced interest. I am not that parochial that I only want to see Engkand with Wasps players in,  the internationals this weekend have been fascinating.

To be clear, my point about parochial was that discussions here are parochial given the nature and title of the forum, not that the people here are parochial. If anything I'd say contributors here are some of the most (rugby) cosmopolitan sports fans I've come across.

[baldpaul101]

I think England deserve massive praise for fighting back to win the game. If I was a betting man I would have put money on SA winning with 20 mins left. Yes they gave a way a lot of penalties, but they were under massive pressure in the scrums & mauls, what else were they supposed to do? They dealt with the issues in front of them & found a way to win, and they deserve credit for that.

The bigger question is can they back it up with a good 6 nations? Ireland & Scotland have looked decent, while France have been playing absolutely mental rugby! So with visits to Paris & Murrayfield England will have it all to do. It could be a very interesting tournament with pretty much any one of 4 teams all in with a decent chance. Even Wales who haven't really impressed could even surprise a few teams.

[matelot22]

I think Itoje is one of those polarising players that most would love if he was on your team, but hate otherwise. McCaw, Bakkies etc all played to the limits (and often beyond) and were a major pain in the arse for opposition. Itoje is in that mould. But I also wish he'd stop the whooping!

[westwaleswasp]

If anyone has not watched the FR NZ match, I would say you will thank yourself if you do. Really looking forward to France in the 6N, hard not to just admire their brass- I would love it if they won the WC I don't mind admitting.
Magnifique!

[Bloke in North Dorset]

If anyone has not watched the FR NZ match, I would say you will thank yourself if you do. Really looking forward to France in the 6N, hard not to just admire their brass- I would love it if they won the WC I don't mind admitting.
Magnifique!

+1

Great game. T

[InBetweenWasp]

I think Itoje is one of those polarising players that most would love if he was on your team, but hate otherwise. McCaw, Bakkies etc all played to the limits (and often beyond) and were a major pain in the arse for opposition. Itoje is in that mould. But I also wish he'd stop the whooping!

I'd agree with that although i'd say he's not really in the Bakkies mould (i.e. dirty in a physical sense), he's definitely in the McCaw edge-of-the-laws and seemingly always getting the benefit of the doubt mould.

The thing with Itoje is that relative to the rest of the team, typically a poor Itoje performance is still high performance.  He's been quieter than usual - less of the galloping breaks and seems to be doing more of the nitty-gritty.  Despite a poor 6N by his standards and a pretty quiet Lions Tour, I suspect he'd still be one of the first names of the team sheet for most fans. 

[matelot22]

I'd agree with that although i'd say he's not really in the Bakkies mould (i.e. dirty in a physical sense), he's definitely in the McCaw edge-of-the-laws and seemingly always getting the benefit of the doubt mould.

The thing with Itoje is that relative to the rest of the team, typically a poor Itoje performance is still high performance.  He's been quieter than usual - less of the galloping breaks and seems to be doing more of the nitty-gritty.  Despite a poor 6N by his standards and a pretty quiet Lions Tour, I suspect he'd still be one of the first names of the team sheet for most fans.

Agreed, although not a fan of him my self, I think he is an incredible athlete. His work rate is almost freakish and he is at full throttle for the full 80 every game, I don't think I've ever seen him substituted???

[Raggs]

Not read much of this thread but just wanted to say i was really impressed with that win.

We bought 3 or 4 scrum wins in the first half on the back of pure trickery. Absolutely pumped for the rest (not surprising given injuries). We were smashed in the maul, again front row injuries have a big effect here. Struggled with our own lineout (injuries again). Due to all the above pressures we gave away a load of penalties.

However the controllables were good. Our defence was pretty solid. Work under the high ball mostly defused the boks backs. And completely sold the boks defence a few times with first phase set piece moves to lead to tries.

I think you'd struggle to find another game where the set piece and maul were all so one sided, along with a 18-8 penalty count (boks only had about 4 up until the 65th minute, Think the quirke try riled them). And for the team on the wrong end of those facts to have won.

If that was a wasps game we'd be screaming to the rooftops about character and brilliant planning to take advantage in the few places we could.