10.

[Shugs]

We appear to have nailed our colours to the mast on this but having just got back  from the game tonight it seems obvious if unpopular that Umaga is just not good enough at 10 for a team that should be a serious top 4 prospect. Forget the place kicking - albeit that regularly costs us 6-12 points per game. Dropped passes, aimless kicking, fizzed passes and bizarre decision making smack to me of a lack of competition. There was one incident where Jacob idled towards the perimeter of our in house goal area and attempted a ridiculous kick which served no purpose and actually instantly put all of our forwards offside. Glaws subsequently scored a try through our massively spaced out defence. Ultimately that play cost us the game. How long can we continue to indulge our talented but game costing 10? Because don’t be fooled by the score line - this was dreadful.

[Andywasp50]

Indulged is a very good way of putting it Shugs. 100% agree with everything.

[Covkid40]

Of the other clubs in the premiership at the moment who would swap their number 10 for Jacob, absolutely none of them. Another issue is what other choice do we have right now with Charlie injured and Jimmy required at centre. Those options create other issues Jimmy can’t go on for ever and we just don’t know yet how good Charlie is or worryingly isn’t

[Wombles]

For me Jacob has everything to be right up there with the best 10s in the game. What frustrates me massively is that he is putting in performances like last night as Shugs describes so well. When it clicks you see the player he can be, the  problem is so far this season and most of last it has not. He has so much potential to be so much better than he is...he has now reached a point where he needs to start realising it.

[WonkyWasp]

This is such a sad thread, and all the sadder for being correct. How do you resolve it?

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Jacob's an attacking 10 and when we're getting fast, front foot, ball he is up there with the best. His defence has always been suspect and doesn't seem to be improving. As I said in the match thread, I think he's trying too hard and carrying the weight of the team on his shoulders.

He really doesn't look like he's enjoying himself at the moment.

[HDAWG]

I think Shugs saying lacking competition is accurate. But what else can we do?

Charlie is unproven, still labelled as having potential more than anything. Matthews has the same problem.

We could look for an experienced replacement, but that raises 2 other problems. Wasps are adamant we have to have a 10 who doesn't sit deep and draws close to the line. Didn't change the strategy for Sopoaga, just waited until someone happened to fill the gap. But it's so niche there's literally nobody on the market who's available and plays that way. E.g. Ford just went to Sale. And the 2nd problem is £££ and I anticipated spending money on either keeping Fekitoa or signing a replacement. If there's an English option then potentially a different story, but we're very late to the party looking at options like that.

I can't express how annoyed I am to have Umaga play the way he is after the transfers of Ford, McGuinty and potentially Pollard/Lozowski. Hell even Otere Black or Ihaia West. I believe signing someone with more experience will add competition and force him to improve, we can't just keep signing young players for everything because there's no one to rely on.

I stand by it, he is Cips successor in every sense...

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I am going to maybe be unpopular. I think Jacob will develop. Sure, he will have his off days. Very few 10s don't. Chalk it off as that and move on. Let the lad mull it over and look to do better. In our hearts of hearts, we fans all know this season is a wash for Wasps, so let's use it for development. Go in to each match to see what the good things we do can be, and to enjoy playing.

I do agree, there are some players who surely cannot get a new contract, but not based on one or two games.

[HDAWG]

I do agree, there are some players who surely cannot get a new contract, but not based on one or two games.

Hate to derail the thread, but which players fall under that description? It was implied in another thread there are players who cannot get renewed contracts.

[Chunky24]

I am going to maybe be unpopular. I think Jacob will develop. Sure, he will have his off days. Very few 10s don't. Chalk it off as that and move on. Let the lad mull it over and look to do better. In our hearts of hearts, we fans all know this season is a wash for Wasps, so let's use it for development. Go in to each match to see what the good things we do can be, and to enjoy playing.

I do agree, there are some players who surely cannot get a new contract, but not based on one or two games.

Agree, Jacob is indeed having to develop as a 10, in particular game management, at the top end of the game in an almost non stop run of games with wasps. I have said this before on here most of his junior and loan senior rugby both UK and abroad was at 12 and 15, for England u20s he was 12 to Max Malins at 10.

[InBetweenWasp]

I don't think we can underestimate the disruption in the team at the moment.  The backline is far from settled and it's where we've looked especially laboured.  For a team who traditionally gets out-muscled by most teams, but has a backline that can tear most to shreds we're pretty much the opposite this season.

We can't seem to score tries from strike plays for love nor money - our red zone stats confirm that.  This year, most of our tries seem to come from driving mauls off of lineouts or short-range tries from the base of a ruck.

Booj had a stinker yesterday (as did Jacob).  Bassett was playing for the first time at 13.  Hougaard on the wing.  He might have played there for the Boks 20 odd times, but not lately he hasn't and not with this backline.  He looked ok for 1-on-1 tackles but looked unsure positionally.

It would be nice to have some consistency in selection (but obviously we can't at the moment due to injuries), so that if we do parachute someone onto the wing, or into the centre for the first time that they have a settled backline around them to help bed in.

The odd dropped ball on a cold night I can understand, but so many wayward passes causing these fumbles.  Lots of passes given that were fired high, or low.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I hate that this thread is a thing. But it's very hard to disagree that he simply isn't performing right now.

When he shines he shows he had massive potential, but the lows are just as low as the highs are high. I'd really settle for fewer highs if we also got fewer lows.

I don't buy the idea that team disruption is the cause, the thing about a really good playmaker is that they lead. They make the players around them look better simply by being there. Look at the way everything improves when Dobby is on the field.

Someone needs to step up and actually lead this team. Right now everyone is looking to someone else to be that player.

[Rossm]

I think some posters are being overly harsh on Jacob. Yes, he had a bad(dish) game, but remember he scored 2 tries, one of which was a great piece of opportunism. Some of his kicking from hand was sublime - an early penalty touch finder I remember in particular. Yes, he missed some vital place kicks - if he'd been as reliable as Hastings we might have won. His passing was wayward and he dropped too many balls. I think the Josh/Booj centre experiment completely disrupted our backs, both in defence and attack. Personally, if you really wanted to try Josh at 13, then I'd have had Jimmy start which would also have taken the pressure off Jacob's place kicking. Also he didn't have Dobby at SH. I think a few SH snipes might have kept Glos on their toes around the breakdown. I'm sure the late withdrawals of Marcus and Ali in particular must have further disrupted our preparation. For all his spirit, I don't think Matteo (sadly) added anything much. It was a miserable, icy Friday night. Nobody seems to wear gloves or mittens, though Hastings had the tips of his fingers and thumbs taped. Why not have little pockets/flaps on the jersey a la NFL?

It's so easy to jump on the back of a player - some posters seem to revel in it. Did it start with Nicky Robinson or did someone else cop it earlier?

[wasps]

I stand by it, he is Cips successor in every sense...

It's quite striking how similar some of the comments are between the 2 of them during good games and bad games.


Cipriani was often accused by some as not putting any effort into defence, being disinterested, missing easy kicks, trying too hard, or simply going missing of he wasn't happy

Similarly, he was also referred to at other times as a magician, as someone who brought the best out of those around him, and as a fly half that could win you the game on his own.



As someone who felt that Cipriani was the most exciting fly half since Carlos Spencer, I'd be happy if Jacob was able to enhance his attacking game to match Danny's.
However, if you do that without focusing on other aspects of the game and without ensuring that even when things aren't going well you're still able to pull the team forwards, then there will always be question marks about how good he really is.


He's 23.
There's still plenty of time for him to become a top quality player, on both good and bad days

[Steve from Cov]

I think some posters are being overly harsh on Jacob. Yes, he had a bad(dish) game, but remember he scored 2 tries, one of which was a great piece of opportunism. Some of his kicking from hand was sublime - an early penalty touch finder I remember in particular. Yes, he missed some vital place kicks - if he'd been as reliable as Hastings we might have won. His passing was wayward and he dropped too many balls. I think the Josh/Booj centre experiment completely disrupted our backs, both in defence and attack. Personally, if you really wanted to try Josh at 13, then I'd have had Jimmy start which would also have taken the pressure off Jacob's place kicking. Also he didn't have Dobby at SH. I think a few SH snipes might have kept Glos on their toes around the breakdown. I'm sure the late withdrawals of Marcus and Ali in particular must have further disrupted our preparation. For all his spirit, I don't think Matteo (sadly) added anything much. It was a miserable, icy Friday night. Nobody seems to wear gloves or mittens, though Hastings had the tips of his fingers and thumbs taped. Why not have little pockets/flaps on the jersey a la NFL?

It's so easy to jump on the back of a player - some posters seem to revel in it. Did it start with Nicky Robinson or did someone else cop it earlier?

+1. Jacob has all the attributes to be a top 10 but without Dobby and a back line to help him out he tried too hard.

Jacob is a confidence player and I’m sure he isn’t feeling too good right now.