Unjabbed players face ban against France in Six Nations

[Trevs Big Tackle]

I'm not an immunologist either. There's a few other ingredients in the vaccine that would be common from vaccine to vaccine that might have caused a reaction. https://www.immunology.org/news/whats-in-vaccine

It's like having an allergic reaction to a leak and potato soup because the stock contains celery so you don't want to order a cream of chicken soup in case that also uses celery in the stock.

[Shugs]

I’m all for jabs and am now triple jabbed myself. Genuine question though which I’m hoping someone a lot cleverer than me medically will answer. I quite understand that getting the jab has benefits for the recipient. However as far as I know having it does not lessen the chances of you getting Covid or passing it on. So if you’re not jabbed, in essence, that’s your problem. But insisting on it serves no purpose in addressing the actual spread of the disease. Obviously there is less strain on services etc the bigger the take - is that why they are insisting on it? Or is it just to protect the individual who doesn’t want it?

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I’m all for jabs and am now triple jabbed myself. Genuine question though which I’m hoping someone a lot cleverer than me medically will answer. I quite understand that getting the jab has benefits for the recipient. However as far as I know having it does not lessen the chances of you getting Covid or passing it on. So if you’re not jabbed, in essence, that’s your problem. But insisting on it serves no purpose in addressing the actual spread of the disease. Obviously there is less strain on services etc the bigger the take - is that why they are insisting on it? Or is it just to protect the individual who doesn’t want it?

The major issue is a societal one. Not getting jabbed means you are far more likely to get admitted to hospital, using up very scarce resources. But, one could argue playing rugby is dangerous, so not playing it would results in less injuries, and less visits to hospital. The same with most activities.

I did think that the jabs did also lessen the chances of catching it, and also reduce the likelihood of onward transmission?

[MarleyWasp]

My very-lay person understanding of vaccines is that rather than preventing you from contracting an illness/virus, they provide your body with the tools to fight the illness/virus. It may be that a person's body can fight of Covid much quicker after the vaccine thus reducing their symptoms or even preventing them from realising they've been infected, which in turn would lower the time they can infect anyone else.

In terms of Omicron and sportsmen needing to be vaccinated, it's worth keeping in mind that Portugal's Omicron outbreak's patient zero was a South African footballer from the Belenenses club who tested positive after returning from an international match. He infected most of his club, who in turn infected many of their friends and family and it went from there. That was at the end of November and Omicron is now the dominant varient there.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Time to earn myself a load more smites.

For young people it is a completely different risk analysis to old people or those or those with pre-existing conditions.

This is from the latest Coronavirus vaccine - weekly summary of Yellow Card reporting, updated 24 December 2021
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

Table 6: Number of UK suspected thrombo-embolic events with concurrent thrombocytopenia ADR cases received for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca by patient age up to and including 15 December 2021.
Age range (years)   Number of cases   Number of fatal cases
18-29   30   7
30-39   50   11
40-49   109   13
50-59   101   19
60-69   62   11
70-79   40   7
80-89   6   3
90-99   2   1
Unknown   29   3
Total   429   75

....

Myocarditis and pericarditis (Inflammation of the heart)
The MHRA has undertaken a thorough review of both UK and international reports of suspected myocarditis and pericarditis following vaccination against COVID-19. There has been a consistent pattern of higher reporting of these suspected events with the COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech and COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna, and of these occurring more frequently in males. In the UK the body of evidence shows that for Pfizer in particular, there is similar frequency of reporting after the first and second dose, with suspected events typically occurring within a short time after vaccination. These reports have also been analysed by the government’s independent advisory body, the Commission on Human Medicines (CHM) and its COVID-19 Vaccines Benefit Risk Expert Working Group. Following their advice, the product information for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccines was updated to inform of these reports and advise healthcare professionals and patients to be aware of important symptoms for myocarditis and pericarditis.

These reports are very rare, and the events reported are typically mild with individuals usually recovering within a short time with standard treatment and rest. People should come forward for their first and second vaccination when invited to do so, unless advised otherwise.

There's a lot more in there, including reports of menstrual disorders and unexpected vaginal bleeding.

As we have known almost from the start, for young, health people Covid hasn't been a major health problem but they have been expected to make sacrifices to protect others. So when it comes to seeing reports about possible serious side effects from the vaccines, vaccines that appeared inside a year, they are making a completely different risk calculation. It must be even more concerning for professional athletes, especially men who are most at risk of myocarditis.

I really don't like this mocking and belittling those who have genuine health concerns, mainly because nobody is in a position to tell them what risks they should take with their bodies, but also because its hardly likely to give them the confidence to get vaccinated.

If it was a completely sterilising, one-off, vaccination it would be a different calculation but as we're now being told it could be every 3 moths that makes it different equation.

And if anyone is interested here's some research from the USA which is on the CDC's website:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-10-20-21/07-COVID-Su-508.pdf

Summary
▪ 3,336 reports of myopericarditis or pericarditis to VAERS (as of October 6, 2021)
• 2,459 myopericarditis, 877 pericarditis
▪ Epidemiology of myopericarditis following COVID-19 vaccination similar to
previously reported updates
• Primarily in younger males, after dose 2 mRNA vaccination, symptom onset clustering
within several days of vaccination
▪ Limited follow-up information in VAERS case reports suggests most patients
(77%) symptomatically recover
▪ Reporting rates of myocarditis > background rates for males (12–49 years,
depending upon dose and manufacturer) and females (after dose 2, 12–29
years, depending upon manufacturer)
▪ Data subject to limitations of VAERS

[WonkyWasp]

BiND ... come and join the elite group of Smite Receivers.  It's the In thing.  All the best people are multi-smited! Except (quite rightly)  VV.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

BiND ... come and join the elite group of Smite Receivers.  It's the In thing.  All the best people are multi-smited! Except (quite rightly)  VV.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

For the record I had Myocarditis after my first vaccine (Pfizer). It wasn't particularly pleasant, and I ended up in A&E for some time with various cardiac symptoms.

However even with that personal experience I am able to look at the evidence and see that the risk to me from Covid is higher than the risk to me of further episodes of myocarditis.  Plus I can't inadvertently infect someone with Myocarditis and kill their loved ones.  So I have had a second jab, and a booster.

In this country we have a long history of vaccinating people against things that will cause them little harm in order to protect others.  This is no different.

[13thWarrior]

You could have the first 2 doses closer together - our gov was doing 12 weeks but others were doing shorter durations and I think it gives a similar level of protection.

[Raggs]

Plenty of young people have had myocarditis from getting covid too. Death rates are low in the young, but plenty have had long term issues if not vaccinated. Yes, the vaccine is a risk, but it's risk is still lower than getting covid without being vaccinated. That's before we even get onto societal reasons to have it.