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Author Topic: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times  (Read 3332 times)

westwaleswasp

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2022, 12:51:58 AM »
Quoting Fifita and Koch as recruitment seems a bit odd since one is leaving as the other arrives, they cannot ever appear in the same team.  I think Fifita has been much, much better than good. Disappointed to see him go, Makakai I can live with. When we talk about recruitment we should also talk about retention, and we are losing two high end players.

Hislop seemed to start great, but looks not quite so good of late, will be interesting to see what happens long term, and you missed Scholtz, who at 27 has not been signed as an up and coming youngster and is an obvious non success story, assuming he has not been injured.
 I am very much with you on those other players and by and large we have recruited well overall, but I don't quite think it has been unremittingly excellent.

f you were working in Scarletland as I do, you might find it  hard- in the space of a year they have taken Fifita from us and given us Scholtz...

Steve from Cov

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2022, 10:09:00 AM »
Re-financing would have been a plan (alongside others) from the start. We’re in good shape and will go from strength to strength. Ironically with the cap limitations we’ll build our balance sheet quicker than expected which I guess is no bad thing. Lots of talk about recruitment etc. We’ve no idea who is coming or going in totality yet so that’s not a call that can be made. I believe we’re in a good position and will push on from here.

+1

Chins

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2022, 02:17:26 PM »
One of the richest clubs in Europe being the main one and 8 years later we seem to be one of the poorest.

How so?  We have one of the biggest grounds, many non-rugby businesses, a stunning training centre.  It's just we work within the salary cap, that doesn't mean the club isn't better off than others. I get that it's really disappointing to be in the position we are in, but are you suggesting that we should be doing a Sarries and buying some success by cheating?

At the meeting in Marlow we were told that this move made us the richest club in Europe with multiple income streams. We had a few years without Covid to blame and that starts to look like a statement that has not been backed up. We certainly signed some big names, gave away a load of free tickets, had JLR sponsorship and a nice fan village. That all started to go south rather quickly. We can’t afford to pay Pete and even the drummers have been canned (not a big loss)

I’m still not sure where the turnaround is going to come from. I don’t think a new Hilton hotel is our saviour. Would like to see how much that will contribute.

On the field it will be interesting to see what our squad is for next year. As it has been for the past few seasons it seems that outgoing quality may not be fully replaced. Let’s see on that front. I will keep the faith.

We really need to improve the match day experience to attract new fans. Even for us die hards we deserve better than we are being offered. I just hope it’s sorted ready for when I escape the USA back to Blighty.



Steve from Cov

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2022, 02:24:57 PM »
One of the richest clubs in Europe being the main one and 8 years later we seem to be one of the poorest.

How so?  We have one of the biggest grounds, many non-rugby businesses, a stunning training centre.  It's just we work within the salary cap, that doesn't mean the club isn't better off than others. I get that it's really disappointing to be in the position we are in, but are you suggesting that we should be doing a Sarries and buying some success by cheating?

At the meeting in Marlow we were told that this move made us the richest club in Europe with multiple income streams. We had a few years without Covid to blame and that starts to look like a statement that has not been backed up. We certainly signed some big names, gave away a load of free tickets, had JLR sponsorship and a nice fan village. That all started to go south rather quickly. We can’t afford to pay Pete and even the drummers have been canned (not a big loss)

I’m still not sure where the turnaround is going to come from. I don’t think a new Hilton hotel is our saviour. Would like to see how much that will contribute.

On the field it will be interesting to see what our squad is for next year. As it has been for the past few seasons it seems that outgoing quality may not be fully replaced. Let’s see on that front. I will keep the faith.

We really need to improve the match day experience to attract new fans. Even for us die hards we deserve better than we are being offered. I just hope it’s sorted ready for when I escape the USA back to Blighty.

You missed a fabulous day on Sunday Chins. Easily one of the top 5 games to be played at the Ricoh/CBS since Wasps relocated and we were short of c.18 players.

InBetweenWasp

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2022, 02:57:35 PM »
One of the richest clubs in Europe being the main one and 8 years later we seem to be one of the poorest.

How so?  We have one of the biggest grounds, many non-rugby businesses, a stunning training centre.  It's just we work within the salary cap, that doesn't mean the club isn't better off than others. I get that it's really disappointing to be in the position we are in, but are you suggesting that we should be doing a Sarries and buying some success by cheating?

At the meeting in Marlow we were told that this move made us the richest club in Europe with multiple income streams. We had a few years without Covid to blame and that starts to look like a statement that has not been backed up. We certainly signed some big names, gave away a load of free tickets, had JLR sponsorship and a nice fan village. That all started to go south rather quickly. We can’t afford to pay Pete and even the drummers have been canned (not a big loss)

I’m still not sure where the turnaround is going to come from. I don’t think a new Hilton hotel is our saviour. Would like to see how much that will contribute.

On the field it will be interesting to see what our squad is for next year. As it has been for the past few seasons it seems that outgoing quality may not be fully replaced. Let’s see on that front. I will keep the faith.

We really need to improve the match day experience to attract new fans. Even for us die hards we deserve better than we are being offered. I just hope it’s sorted ready for when I escape the USA back to Blighty.

I wasn’t at the Marlow meeting and no reason to disbelieve what you’re saying.  I’m sure I recall press articles using the term richest; but in reality that was never going to be the case.  Rich implies the most amount of cash to spend.  The insinuation from the team at the first visit to The Ricoh before we played our first game was highest revenue.  Which in theory, translated to being able to invest in the playing side.

In terms of the turnaround in finances a combination of Events and Conferences being held, income from two teams playing regularly at the Stadium, Commonwealth Games income and the Hotels being open again increasing footfall should help significantly as should the new hotel once opened.

We've both planned to and been forced to cut costs; again helping our precarious position and assuming we can re-finance the bond we should be on our way to a more stable future. 

Time will tell whether posters who have claimed The Arena businesses to be basketcases (and for whom don't believe that the assets could be more heavily utilised and costs better management to increase revenues and decrease costs) are right, or whether Derek and his Team had the right idea all along.

It’s interesting to see that some of the biggest critiques of the matchday experience in recent times have been non-regulars both in terms of Fans who post on social media and some away fans.

Whilst I love the city and the surroundings of the ground, my experience of the Rec was that getting to/from your seat was hard work, the queues for the bars were as slow as they can be at The CBS and the toilets were a message. 

That could just be because I’m a visitor and unfamiliar with the quirks of the ground - At The CBS, for example, the queues in the bars behind the posts in the North stand are much quicker (a few mins generally before the game) than in the West stand which seems to have (what feels like) a never-ending queue to grab a pint.

I thoroughly enjoy the Away Day experience at The Stoop (less so the results at times) and we enjoyed our visit to Brentford for the Irish game last season - But that was a capped crowd and so the experience was probably far better than usual.

What's most telling (for me at least) is that for all of the noise on here, DWs and Twitter I just don't hear the same complaints from fellow fans in the Stands.  It tells me it's not as bad as we perhaps think - There are definitely improvements to be made and from what Stephen Vaughan has said at the Training Centre night and in his recent E-Mail the Execs fully understand and appreciate what's being asked of them; when they're in a position to deliver I'm sure they will.

What helps with the experience more than anything is winning rugby. 


Rossm

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2022, 03:09:13 PM »
What helps with the experience more than anything is winning rugby.


Not just winning, IBW.  It's got to be attractive and entertaining which will bring in the neutral. I have a suspicion that King Prawn Phuna made a last minute decision to attend and there is no more ardent Gloucester fan than him.
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Neils

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2022, 03:18:17 PM »
One of the richest clubs in Europe being the main one and 8 years later we seem to be one of the poorest.

How so?  We have one of the biggest grounds, many non-rugby businesses, a stunning training centre.  It's just we work within the salary cap, that doesn't mean the club isn't better off than others. I get that it's really disappointing to be in the position we are in, but are you suggesting that we should be doing a Sarries and buying some success by cheating?

At the meeting in Marlow we were told that this move made us the richest club in Europe with multiple income streams. We had a few years without Covid to blame and that starts to look like a statement that has not been backed up. We certainly signed some big names, gave away a load of free tickets, had JLR sponsorship and a nice fan village. That all started to go south rather quickly. We can’t afford to pay Pete and even the drummers have been canned (not a big loss)

I’m still not sure where the turnaround is going to come from. I don’t think a new Hilton hotel is our saviour. Would like to see how much that will contribute.

On the field it will be interesting to see what our squad is for next year. As it has been for the past few seasons it seems that outgoing quality may not be fully replaced. Let’s see on that front. I will keep the faith.

We really need to improve the match day experience to attract new fans. Even for us die hards we deserve better than we are being offered. I just hope it’s sorted ready for when I escape the USA back to Blighty.

I wasn’t at the Marlow meeting and no reason to disbelieve what you’re saying.  I’m sure I recall press articles using the term richest; but in reality that was never going to be the case.  Rich implies the most amount of cash to spend.  The insinuation from the team at the first visit to The Ricoh before we played our first game was highest revenue.  Which in theory, translated to being able to invest in the playing side.

In terms of the turnaround in finances a combination of Events and Conferences being held, income from two teams playing regularly at the Stadium, Commonwealth Games income and the Hotels being open again increasing footfall should help significantly as should the new hotel once opened.

We've both planned to and been forced to cut costs; again helping our precarious position and assuming we can re-finance the bond we should be on our way to a more stable future. 

Time will tell whether posters who have claimed The Arena businesses to be basketcases (and for whom don't believe that the assets could be more heavily utilised and costs better management to increase revenues and decrease costs) are right, or whether Derek and his Team had the right idea all along.

It’s interesting to see that some of the biggest critiques of the matchday experience in recent times have been non-regulars both in terms of Fans who post on social media and some away fans.

Whilst I love the city and the surroundings of the ground, my experience of the Rec was that getting to/from your seat was hard work, the queues for the bars were as slow as they can be at The CBS and the toilets were a message. 

That could just be because I’m a visitor and unfamiliar with the quirks of the ground - At The CBS, for example, the queues in the bars behind the posts in the North stand are much quicker (a few mins generally before the game) than in the West stand which seems to have (what feels like) a never-ending queue to grab a pint.

I thoroughly enjoy the Away Day experience at The Stoop (less so the results at times) and we enjoyed our visit to Brentford for the Irish game last season - But that was a capped crowd and so the experience was probably far better than usual.

What's most telling (for me at least) is that for all of the noise on here, DWs and Twitter I just don't hear the same complaints from fellow fans in the Stands.  It tells me it's not as bad as we perhaps think - There are definitely improvements to be made and from what Stephen Vaughan has said at the Training Centre night and in his recent E-Mail the Execs fully understand and appreciate what's being asked of them; when they're in a position to deliver I'm sure they will.

What helps with the experience more than anything is winning rugby.

Sorry hate to quote such a long piece.

Agree with what is said and I have confidence in what I have been told, if it all comes to fruition, will boost the overall company and hence the Rugby club (and the Women's team and Netball team).

To answer one point raised - the new hotel is required because they have identified how much they lose by having a small hotel on site when a large exhibition is in the arena. Most exhibitors and visitors have to find accommodation elsewhere in the city so they want to capture more of that trade. Sensible to my mind.
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WonkyWasp

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2022, 05:41:23 PM »
InBetween and Neils   -  100 per cent agree with you both.

coddy

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2022, 07:14:07 PM »


On the field it will be interesting to see what our squad is for next year. As it has been for the past few seasons it seems that outgoing quality may not be fully replaced. Let’s see on that front. I will keep the faith.

[/quote]



Chins

You do realise the salary cap is coming down next season right?

Shugs

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2022, 07:32:07 PM »
Westwaleswasp take your point. I was quoting recruitment as a stand-alone exercise rather than it all ending up in one team. We’ve really no idea why Fifita is going but we found and recruited him. Of course there are outliers - as well as Scholtz (so far) I’d give you Eastmond and Sopoaga but in balance I’d argue it’s overwhelmingly positive. On the Fekitoa v Fifita we’re probably losing both so it may be moot but for me one is a world class centre who can be effective on both sides of the ball whilst the other doesn’t make our starting 15. It’s probably the most interesting “transfer period” we’ve seen in a while. I was genuinely shocked if not so much concerned at the Fifita news and up and down the league I think they’ll be lots more shocks to come as teams are forced to cut their cloth.

InBetweenWasp

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2022, 07:51:06 PM »
Eastmond was excellent.  Just constantly broken  :(

Shugs

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2022, 08:40:35 PM »
Hmmm. Not for me he wasn’t. No disputing the broken bit!

Chins

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2022, 09:33:28 PM »


On the field it will be interesting to see what our squad is for next year. As it has been for the past few seasons it seems that outgoing quality may not be fully replaced. Let’s see on that front. I will keep the faith.




Chins

You do realise the salary cap is coming down next season right?
[/quote]

Yes. I know it's down temporarily and we lose a marque. However as I seem to remember that we were not at the cap this year, that being the case we should need to adjust less than most.  Ok, we nicked one from Sarries, but not seeing many signs of them making lots of changes. Sale ? Bristol ? Looks like we are losing all our Kiwis and Thomas for starters. Will we even hit the cap next year ? 

Chins

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2022, 09:39:28 PM »

"To answer one point raised - the new hotel is required because they have identified how much they lose by having a small hotel on site when a large exhibition is in the arena. Most exhibitors and visitors have to find accommodation elsewhere in the city so they want to capture more of that trade. Sensible to my mind"

I understand the logic behind the hotel. I question how much of a revenue spinner it will be. When will it even be ready ? How is it being funded ? Are we not losing car parking space for fans to build it ? If we ever get back to much bigger crowds then parking wasn't the easiest.  As a Hilton Diamond member I welcome the hotel and it will be a good use of my points potentially :)

Neils

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Re: Not all grim news - Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2022, 09:50:46 PM »

"To answer one point raised - the new hotel is required because they have identified how much they lose by having a small hotel on site when a large exhibition is in the arena. Most exhibitors and visitors have to find accommodation elsewhere in the city so they want to capture more of that trade. Sensible to my mind"

I understand the logic behind the hotel. I question how much of a revenue spinner it will be. When will it even be ready ? How is it being funded ? Are we not losing car parking space for fans to build it ? If we ever get back to much bigger crowds then parking wasn't the easiest.  As a Hilton Diamond member I welcome the hotel and it will be a good use of my points potentially :)

To answer what I can - I was told that work will commence at the end of the spring 2Q22, the proposals included a new car park on waste land to the East of the Stadium, agree on ease of parking as not sure how much of Car Park C will remain (although currently Amazon Prime have half of C fenced off). Funding as far as I can remember from discussions requires little from Derek but I may not have understood.  Agree on HH points collection though. Much of this is historical sent out as emails to STHs so may still exist in the club website.
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