Wasps v Tigers: Post Match Thoughts

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I wonder.

9 Robson
10 Umaga
11 Bassett
12 Atkinson
13 Spink
14 Hougaard
15 Crossdale

Just think how much we could mix and match on the pitch and in the back 3.

No problems about the attack and Charlie's a brave young man and I think together he and Jacob together leave us a bit exposed defensively, but with our back row it could work well.

[CV2]

Maybe i'm in the minority but I've been generally quite pleased with Wus and Porter's showings this season. There will always be a drop off with Dobby out because of how good he is and the amount we play off 9, Hougaard was brought in to bridge that gap but now we find him almost indispensable on the wing.

There was a definitely a slow kicking/territory tactic against Tigers and perhaps in previous games too which is why whoever seems to come off the bench injects the tempo and looks the better for it.

Dobby and Hougaard aside we have two young 9's and two young 10's and with that will come a lot of inconsistency - so we may not to see it all this season but with the amount of game time they are currently getting at this level now we will hopefully reap the benefits next season and thereafter.

Just on a side note there was a picture of all the ex academy involved in the first team on Sunday T.Willis, Alfie, Spink, Cardall, Porter, Zac N, Atkinson and Oghre - quite impressive really.

[Steve from Cov]

Maybe i'm in the minority but I've been generally quite pleased with Wus and Porter's showings this season. There will always be a drop off with Dobby out because of how good he is and the amount we play off 9, Hougaard was brought in to bridge that gap but now we find him almost indispensable on the wing.

There was a definitely a slow kicking/territory tactic against Tigers and perhaps in previous games too which is why whoever seems to come off the bench injects the tempo and looks the better for it.

Dobby and Hougaard aside we have two young 9's and two young 10's and with that will come a lot of inconsistency - so we may not to see it all this season but with the amount of game time they are currently getting at this level now we will hopefully reap the benefits next season and thereafter.

Just on a side note there was a picture of all the ex academy involved in the first team on Sunday T.Willis, Alfie, Spink, Cardall, Porter, Zac N, Atkinson and Oghre - quite impressive really.

+1.

[Shugs]

Atkinson looks like a natural Wasps 12 to me. I think maybe the odd game for now rather than banking on him but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that’s where he ended up.

[RogerE]

Found the following in, of all places, the Bucks Free Press

I lost my head – captain Ellis Genge apologises to Leicester for yellow card

Ellis Genge has apologised to his Leicester team-mates and head coach Steve Borthwick after he was sin-binned during Tigers’ Gallagher Premiership defeat against Wasps.

The Leicester captain received a yellow card following an incident when he pushed his hand into Francois Hougaard’s face and appeared to pull the Wasps player’s hair.

The Tigers’ 16-13 loss on Sunday was their first reversal this season, ending a run of 11 successive Premiership victories.

Leicester flanker Tommy Reffell, meanwhile, received a yellow card earlier in the first half for an off-the-ball tackle.

“It potentially cost us the game, being down to 14 men for that amount of time,” said England prop Genge, who was making his 100th Leicester appearance.

“I think mine was an isolated incident with me losing my head for a split second off the back of someone doing something to me. Tommy’s was him working to get back to make a try-saving tackle. There was a big difference between the two.

“I’ve apologised to the boys for letting them down, I’ve apologised to Steve.

“It’s something I can’t promise I won’t do again, but it is one of those, you lose your head in the heat of the moment.

“I haven’t got a bad discipline record. I’ve never been red-carded in the professional game. I think I’ve got about four yellows in my professional career, so I guess that answers all your questions around that.

“For some reason I’ve got this weird perception that I’ve got bad discipline, I get peppered online about it. It goes in one ear and out the other. I feel like I probably let myself down.

“I am usually the one getting the reaction, as opposed to giving a reaction. It’s a learning lesson for me, being on the other side of the coin where I’ve lost my head in a split second.

“I’ve seen a lot of people saying I tried gouging him (Hougaard), which is absolutely ridiculous. I would never even dream of doing something like that. It’s disgusting.

“I lost my head, I pushed him in the face a little bit, I will learn from it. I’ve said sorry to the boys, I said sorry to Steve, and we move on.”

Borthwick appointed Genge to the role of skipper this season and he has played a pivotal role in helping Leicester reach the league campaign’s halfway stage with an eight-point lead at the Premiership summit.

Tigers also won their first two Heineken Champions Cup games last month and they appear well on course for a place in the tournament’s knockout phase.

Borthwick said: “He (Genge) is brilliant to be able to connect people – whether you are an 18-year-old coming out of the academy to someone with 100-plus caps, he can connect everyone together.

“If you’ve got someone who works hard, is brilliant with people and playing really well, he’s an incredibly powerful leader.

“From my point of view, the time I have worked with Ellis, he is terrific.

“He thinks calmly and is able to give clear instructions. He has grown to be a top-class international player.”

[wasps]

There's some truths in that article.

Genge comes across as a thug. I used to think that he was a loose cannon. However as he says, his disciplinary record isn't terrible and he rarely oversteps the mark.

He definitely lost his cool, but I truly don't believe it was an attempt to gouge.

I like that he's owned it, and accepts the responsibility.... There's plenty that wouldn't



That all being said, I do believe it should have been a red card during the game, and I'm absolutely amazed that the citing officer didn't even take a look at it

[WonkyWasp]

Are we  talking about the same Ellis Genge??

[Neils]

There's some truths in that article.

Genge comes across as a thug. I used to think that he was a loose cannon. However as he says, his disciplinary record isn't terrible and he rarely oversteps the mark.

He definitely lost his cool, but I truly don't believe it was an attempt to gouge.

I like that he's owned it, and accepts the responsibility.... There's plenty that wouldn't



That all being said, I do believe it should have been a red card during the game, and I'm absolutely amazed that the citing officer didn't even take a look at it

He didn't "own" pulling his hair. Watch it - it is a flowing act. "Played" with the face straight to the hair pull. A nasty human who should have been off and banned.

[Rossm]

I see he's apologised to his team mates and to Steve Borthwick but nothing for Francois who, after all, was on the receiving end of his actions. Genge is self deluding if he thinks he is the victim.

[backdoc]

I see he's apologised to his team mates and to Steve Borthwick but nothing for Francois who, after all, was on the receiving end of his actions. Genge is self deluding if he thinks he is the victim.

That is exactly how he comes across. 'I am sorry, but'.

[Shugs]

He doesn’t even mention the hair pull. That was just as bad for me as although it’s nowhere near as dangerous as near contact with the eye it does display a childish, brat like petulance commensurate with a posturing arrogant manchild too wrapped up in his own arrogance and perceived self importance to even contemplate he has done anything wrong.

[InBetweenWasp]

He's got it spot on for me.

He's not a thug.  He's physical, combative and confrontational but he's not a cheap-shot merchant nor do you see him making outrageous high tackles etc...  He lost his composure for a fleeting second and he should have been red-carded (IMO), the citing commissioner doesn't agree.

He has backed up his belief that he's not a thug by bringing up his disciplinary/card record.  100 Caps for Tigers and 30 Caps for England and a handful of Yellows. 

Not sure why he owes Francois an apology - Francois was unhurt and knows the game.  More suffering was caused to his own team - which he recognises and openly apologised for as in a close game where they spent 25% of the game a man-down it's likely to have impacted overall energy levels even if they didn't concede points.

His honesty is what many complain they miss from the game in general.  Too many of us are exasperated with the media-trained answers from players, filled with cliches.  Ellis tells it how it is and isn't afraid to do so.

He also speaks pretty articulately about topics if you listen to The Good, The Bad and The Rugby.  In particular, when led towards commenting on Rugby having a race issue early on in his participations on the Podcast he was quick to point out that he doesn't see a race issue in Rugby; it's not more Black, Mixed Race or other Ethnic Minority players Rugby needs to seek to get involved in the sport.  Instead, it's a class issue and there's a distinct lack of players from working class families.  Think it was a point well made that many probably wouldn't have recognised or considered.

[baldpaul101]

I think you may be wasting your breath IBW. Nothing this board likes more than a pantomime villain 

Anyone guilty of foul play against a wasps player can only be an evil thug in many supporters eyes, it doesn't matter what they are like in real life. But isn't being one eyed what supporting a team is all about?

[Rossm]

He's not a thug.  He's physical, combative and confrontational but he's not a cheap-shot merchant nor do you see him making outrageous high tackles etc...  He lost his composure for a fleeting second and he should have been red-carded (IMO), the citing commissioner doesn't agree.

He has backed up his belief that he's not a thug by bringing up his disciplinary/card record.  100 Caps for Tigers and 30 Caps for England and a handful of Yellows. 

I've never called him a thug and I agree with IBW. He's a very hard playing prop in the modern mould. He thrives on physical confrontation. But, he is also Leicester captain and should never have allowed himself to lose his cool. I think his temperament was deliberately targeted by certain of our players - most probably Brad and JTA, among others and he let it get right under his skin. Earlier in the half he had to be dragged back by Dan Cole when it looked like he had lost it with Brad. If he had made it to half time then I am sure that Steve Borthwick would have had some strong words of comfort with him. However, he didn't make it that far and the red mist descended when Francois turned a Tigers ball over and he (Genge) was powerless to prevent it.
I still think he should have seen red but Foley thought otherwise. Anyway, it's all history now and once again we pissed on Leicester's party.

[hopwood]

He's got it spot on for me.

He's not a thug.  He's physical, combative and confrontational but he's not a cheap-shot merchant nor do you see him making outrageous high tackles etc...  He lost his composure for a fleeting second and he should have been red-carded (IMO), the citing commissioner doesn't agree.

He has backed up his belief that he's not a thug by bringing up his disciplinary/card record.  100 Caps for Tigers and 30 Caps for England and a handful of Yellows. 

Not sure why he owes Francois an apology - Francois was unhurt and knows the game.  More suffering was caused to his own team - which he recognises and openly apologised for as in a close game where they spent 25% of the game a man-down it's likely to have impacted overall energy levels even if they didn't concede points.

His honesty is what many complain they miss from the game in general.  Too many of us are exasperated with the media-trained answers from players, filled with cliches.  Ellis tells it how it is and isn't afraid to do so.

He also speaks pretty articulately about topics if you listen to The Good, The Bad and The Rugby.  In particular, when led towards commenting on Rugby having a race issue early on in his participations on the Podcast he was quick to point out that he doesn't see a race issue in Rugby; it's not more Black, Mixed Race or other Ethnic Minority players Rugby needs to seek to get involved in the sport.  Instead, it's a class issue and there's a distinct lack of players from working class families.  Think it was a point well made that many probably wouldn't have recognised or considered.

Great post.
And I couldn’t agree more.
Just because some people’s idea of a thug ‘looks like’ Ellis Genge does not mean the bloke isn’t a really good guy.
He’s come up through a different (and more challenging) path in life from the majority of players around him and brings his own unique perspective, strengths and enthusiasm.
He obviously reacted to something, a bit like Haskell used to….and he’s still learning how to keep control of his emotions in those situations.
Where he grew up, I don’t imagine anyone took a backward step…so he has some ‘dog’ deep inside him that may take a while longer to tame, if indeed taming is actually warranted. 
I think a lot of players could probably learn quite a bit from him.

Rugby should be a playground for all types of characters from all types of backgrounds.
We’ve seen a lot worse on a rugby pitch than what we say from Ellis on Sunday.
He got punished, end of story. 
I’m just grateful he’s part of the England setup.