Munster v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts.

[welsh wasp]

Not sure we can justify the "not trying hard" argument. That seems more likely to have produced more injuries if people were holding back.
Agree with comment about the advantage of winning the Parker Pen second-level competition. The next season we won the Champions Cup.

[Rugbyintheblood]

The guys came up against a pretty good Munster team today who were already brimming over with confidence, supported by 10k passionate fans, with hardly a Wasps fan.

They started very strongly and got a few lucky breaks early on, so we started chasing the game and taking huge risks ….. they must have loved it!

Charlie got a glimpse of what it’s like to play at (near) International level, and what you can and can’t get away with. And it’s true to say, we got nothing from the Ref, but sh*t happens.

On the plus side, I thought the following stood out for me today (in no particular order): Brad (great efforts as usual, chipping away at the Ref throughout), YY (until the illegal knock out blow), Rodriguez (he’s superb isn’t he), Stooke (never gave up), Robson (rusty but signs of brilliance), Porter (stepped up at a difficult time), Paolo (just relentless and one of the few who can break the gain line), Bassett (kept causing them problems), Miller (an assured performance), Crossdale (assured and alert), Oghre (looked lively).

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I did say my opinion would be controversial. I agree that they did not go out there to lose, I am certain they went out to give it a crack. What i do not think was present was a set up and approach that was a "give absolutely everything no-matter what" to win. Watch the game again, and look at the players, the coaches, the communication, the energy, the drive and compare and contrast with our games against Leicester and Toulouse, it really is chalk and cheese. It is not about growing out of things, but one thing about growing up is you learn when to pick your battles to win a war.

So how does a coaching team coach a professional rugby team with the pedigree of wasps to go out and not worry about winning?

How does a a head coach whose appointment lots of people questioned,  and about whom the press have expressed doubts about the security of his role make the decision not to try hard to win? How long will he stay in post?

How about Mitch? Former ABs and Enand coach, oh don't worry about this one, it's just a training run...

Can you see Steve Vaughan, or Chris, or Derek being ok with that as a concept?

And the players? It's an insult to the men who put their bodies on the line for this sport to suggest that they are risking their health, their future, and their livelihood  for a game they weren't even 100% committed to.

Yeah Youngyoung is in hospital, but it was a half decent training run so that's fine...

[Covkid40]

I think next week will be very different. Hopefully next week we can add Gopps, Alo, Willis, Barbeary, Launchbury, Frost, Mills and Fekitoa if the injury updates are to be believed and Eddie hadn’t broken Alfie. Although not sure where Fekitoa’s head is at right now with what is going on in Tonga. If we get all those back the team could look a whole lot different

[Westy68]

God I hope so, it would be nice to see, also Fifita may also be part of the party

[westwaleswasp]

I think we may have rotated and rested a little, and as suggested that causes everyone to subconsciously drop.I can buy that. I was a little surprised by the team announcement for sure.


In response to Wombles et al, I am not disrespecting the Challenge Cup. Iirc when the Parker pen was the Parker pen, iit had some top teams such as the then powerhouse and money bags Stade who we beat on the way.
I think the top tier expanded a bit since then, and people now view the Parker replacement as less than it was,   in a similar but less pronounced way to how the cup replacement has bee viewed with events such as the Anglo Welsh and the current.
 iteration being viewed as less than the old Tetley.  This is not my view, but how I see the event reported in the media. It is a great opportunity for us, sure, but I would hope that we have not rested or benched players with the view that the Challenge cup is preferable.

[Westy68]

I think we may have rotated and rested a little, and as suggested that causes everyone to subconsciously drop.I can buy that. I was a little surprised by the team announcement for sure.


In response to Wombles et al, I am not disrespecting the Challenge Cup. Iirc when the Parker pen was the Parker pen, iit had some top teams such as the then powerhouse and money bags Stade who we beat on the way.
I think the top tier expanded a bit since then, and people now view the Parker replacement as less than it was,   in a similar but less pronounced way to how the cup replacement has bee viewed with events such as the Anglo Welsh and the current.
 iteration being viewed as less than the old Tetley.  This is not my view, but how I see the event reported in the media. It is a great opportunity for us, sure, but I would hope that we have not rested or benched players with the view that the Challenge cup is preferable.

It’s looking likely that we will be playing Sarries, it will be interesting to see how seriously we and Sarries take it.

[Heathen]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1485338050037170181

Lee's view.

[hopwood]

Big, big, big Game against Sarries next week.


BIG!

[Beasties]

I haven’t read the match thread so might be just repeating stuff others have said, but that wasn’t a great performance from Wasps. No desire at all compared with the last two games, difficult to keep that intensity with a much changed team I suppose. But the biggest worry for me was Atkinson. He’s not looked fit since returning but today he actually looked like he was dragging his leg around. He had oodles of pace before his injury problems, he trundled today. All that strapping is a worry, if he’s still not right then don’t play him, let him recover properly.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I haven’t read the match thread so might be just repeating stuff others have said, but that wasn’t a great performance from Wasps. No desire at all compared with the last two games, difficult to keep that intensity with a much changed team I suppose. But the biggest worry for me was Atkinson. He’s not looked fit since returning but today he actually looked like he was dragging his leg around. He had oodles of pace before his injury problems, he trundled today. All that strapping is a worry, if he’s still not right then don’t play him, let him recover properly.

Bearing in mind Gopperth, Umaga, and Mills were all ruled out who should we have played instead of him?

[Rossm]

I haven’t read the match thread so might be just repeating stuff others have said, but that wasn’t a great performance from Wasps. No desire at all compared with the last two games, difficult to keep that intensity with a much changed team I suppose. But the biggest worry for me was Atkinson. He’s not looked fit since returning but today he actually looked like he was dragging his leg around. He had oodles of pace before his injury problems, he trundled today. All that strapping is a worry, if he’s still not right then don’t play him, let him recover properly.

Bearing in mind Gopperth, Umaga, and Mills were all ruled out who should we have played instead of him?

Rob Miller possibly?

[Rossm]

Initial tweet from Carl Fearns: "We don’t sit off and cherry pick our games until champions cup/ internationals come around."

Response from Bobby Bridge: "I heard this kind of talk in the press box at Thomond Park. Carl is right. Wasps play Saracens & Exeter in next 13 days.
Munster play Zebre & Edinburgh in the next 25 days. Prem has wars every week, no wonder there’s a knock on effect."

How very very true. I could add that our previous two games (in 6 days) were against unbeaten league leaders, Tigers, and European champs, Toulouse. No wonder we were worn out and in tatters yesterday.

[Beasties]

I haven’t read the match thread so might be just repeating stuff others have said, but that wasn’t a great performance from Wasps. No desire at all compared with the last two games, difficult to keep that intensity with a much changed team I suppose. But the biggest worry for me was Atkinson. He’s not looked fit since returning but today he actually looked like he was dragging his leg around. He had oodles of pace before his injury problems, he trundled today. All that strapping is a worry, if he’s still not right then don’t play him, let him recover properly.

Bearing in mind Gopperth, Umaga, and Mills were all ruled out who should we have played instead of him?

I’ve no answer to that, other than Rob Miller who’s just back from injury himself so hmmmm. Atkinson was good last week so why wouldn’t we have played him? My worry is that he didn’t look comfortable this week whereas he did look reasonably comfortable last week. Who knows, maybe Blackett will be similarly concerned in the next few days?

[westwaleswasp]

That Fearns quote is so true, and we are always at a disadvantage in Europe cf Irish teams.
That said  it has not hugely benefited their national team in the 6n this past decade, at least compared to Wales, perennial underachievers at pro 14 and Europe level, but serial 6n contenders.

I think, getting back to selection, that it does not hugely matter about Atkinson or Miller, Watson or whoever. I don't rate Watson especially highly compared to our other options, but had we had a second Josh Bassett out there, who had a good game, it would not have helped.
We lacked a ball carrying 8. This is why I suspect Booj got the nod, our centres were picked to try and increase the punching of holes.
We had Nemo and Tom, and both are 7s. On the bench Gabby, who can also play 7. Shields is a 6 and to boot our front row and second row happened to not have as much in the way of ball carriers in as guys like Frost were injured. There was plenty of mobility, but it was all a bit lightweight and asking a lot considering how knackered everyone must have been. We might have gotten away with that at prem level.

Once again, it is not always about numbers of injuries but where they are.