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Author Topic: The question everybody is asking.......................  (Read 5938 times)

Rossm

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The question everybody is asking.......................
« on: February 09, 2022, 08:57:06 AM »
England are a shambles of leadership - what exactly does Eddie Jones have to do to be sacked?

Article in today's Telegraph.

What exactly would it take for Eddie Jones to be sacked? Perhaps the England coach would need to run on in the final moments and ankle tap Marcus Smith just as the outside half was in motion for the game’s winning try?

Actually scrap that, as Jones seemed actively to work against his side in those last 17 minutes at Murrayfield. A series of shambolic decisions that can all be too easily be traced back to the very top contrived to allow gallant Scotland to grab home hero status. And not a murmur of a P45 from HQ.

Smith kicked the penalty in the 63rd minute to take the visitors seven points ahead and in the ensuing seconds was hauled off for George Ford in a move so premeditated you could almost hear the buzz of the alarm on Jones’s wristwatch.

No matter that Smith had scored all 17 points, no matter that this 22-year-old had wrested all the momentum for his side - it said on the flowchart that Ford was to play the last quarter and Eddie’s flowcharts never lie.

Over to Ford, the playmaker who was given such confidence in the build-up by Jones, who initially left him out of this 36-man squad, having overlooked him for a 45-man squad in the autumn.

Poor Ford, brilliant for Leicester in this time, must not have known if he was coming and going. In truth, Jones did not have a clue either.  As it was, Ford was gone and then recalled and suddenly expected to go from cruelly forgotten to cool finisher. World-class management, right there. 

If only that were the sole howler. The Jamie George error was way beyond embarrassing and made one wonder what the coaching staff do with all those hours at Pennyhill Park? Not go through simple scenarios, it appears.

The hooker gets a yellow, you bring another on straight away. You do not oh so cleverly wait for the next scrum, when the rules state a dedicated No 2 has to be in action. Because if the next set-piece is a lineout and the hooker is not ready, you have the almost surreal sight of Joe Marler throwing in.

Followed by the predictable outcome of the ball not travelling the requisite five metres and the whistle being blown. A play or two later and Finn Russell was sizing up the match-winning penalty. Say it ain’t so, Joe.
This is basic stuff. There was more to follow. England had the chance to go for a draw, but an increasingly befuddled Tom Curry elected to go for the corner. Except left-footer Henry Slade was not thrown the ball, as he always is for Exeter on that side of the pitch, but Ford and he did not make much more ground than Marler.

It was a tactical failure for which Curry, the under-prepared captain, should not be blamed but Jones, the supposed svengali. The final throes were an abomination, with the England backline in complete confusion. No direction. Oh, Calcutta.

So this is the third campaign in a row England have lost their opening game in the Six Nations - for the first time in 46 years. Since his honeymoon Grand Slam in 2016 and then his title defence the next year, Jones has overseen 11 wins in their last 21 Championship matches. That is a desperate return for a country of those resources. In this same period, only Italy have a worse ratio. That is not a blip.

The Six Nations is the bread and butter but his disciples point to the caviar, to that inspirational triumph over New Zealand in the semi-final of the 2019 World Cup when all the roses aligned. That was the zenith, the heights to which Jones and his men can ascend. But it was also three years ago and there has been something of an unravelling since.

Off the pitch, there have been stories of discord in the ranks, of utter joylessness and, bizarrely, of contracts with overseas clubs. That is just Eddie, they say. He is a perfectionist with a quick gob and ridiculously high standards.

Well, maybe, but unless you are one of those who fail to see that a nation with such a huge playing base should never truly be held to ransom by the injury list, you must surely recognise that Saturday’s denouement was a shambles of leadership. And that Eddie’s England are not nearly where they should be with a World Cup next year.

Admittedly the article is written by James Corrigan who is their Golf Correspondent, but he makes his points.
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wycombewasp

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2022, 09:24:24 AM »
good post, fully agree with the article.

DGP Wasp

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2022, 09:53:10 AM »
Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2022, 09:59:18 AM »
The problem is that the RFU is run by people who come from the same schooling system that gave rise to Boris. Never admit you were wrong, never say sorry. It is one thing that some 'pleb' (by their standards) is saying this, annoying but can be ignored, and another when the matchday commentators start saying the same thing. Which they won't.

Rossm

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2022, 10:02:37 AM »
Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

I don't know a lot about rugby defense but why was it LCD who was there in the first place?
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JonnyD

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2022, 10:15:24 AM »
I also do not think many coaches would have made the substitution to get George on before the next scrum either.
And not sure Ford taking the kick over Slade is that relevant either, just was not a good kick from Ford who’d normally mail those.

More relevance is the much discussed picking of Youngs, players out of position, his treatment of new players and old like Lawrence as well as the mentioned treatment of Ford, refusing to pick any young emerging talent for so long eg, Robson and now he’s happy to pick Randall and Quirke who are not up to this level yet and are then trusted to play.
England rugby are becoming more hated amongst rugby fans under Jones, and it is worrying that a lot of those are actually English.

Time for a change but can’t see it happening until after the World Cup.

There are some good points here but

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2022, 10:23:26 AM »
Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

I don't know a lot about rugby defense but why was it LCD who was there in the first place?
I find it a bit unfair to pile on LCD, yes in an ideal world he'd have caught it, but he's a hooker and it isn't instinctive. If it had been a back he'd have caught it and been down the pitch before anyone else got moving. Even a 2nd rower or No8 would have made a good attempt at catching it.   But then again, the cross field kick only happened because LCD was out there on his own.

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2022, 10:25:18 AM »
The problem is that the RFU is run by people who come from the same schooling system that gave rise to Boris. Never admit you were wrong, never say sorry. It is one thing that some 'pleb' (by their standards) is saying this, annoying but can be ignored, and another when the matchday commentators start saying the same thing. Which they won't.
It needs a Geoffrey Boycott in the commentary box, but that isn't going to happen. Brian Moore prides himself on saying it like it is, but even he seems to pull his punches when it comes to the RFU and Eddie.

Raggs

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2022, 10:26:34 AM »
Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

I don't know a lot about rugby defense but why was it LCD who was there in the first place?
I find it a bit unfair to pile on LCD, yes in an ideal world he'd have caught it, but he's a hooker and it isn't instinctive. If it had been a back he'd have caught it and been down the pitch before anyone else got moving. Even a 2nd rower or No8 would have made a good attempt at catching it.   But then again, the cross field kick only happened because LCD was out there on his own.

He'd leapt up and had 2 hands on the ball. Any sort of attempted catch and fumble would have been far better than deliberately volleyball smacking it out into touch.

Marlow Nick

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2022, 10:30:14 AM »
England rugby are becoming more hated amongst rugby fans under Jones, and it is worrying that a lot of those are actually English.

Im an England supporter but not now. I was glad Scotland won and in my dreams Italy will beat England next weekend. Its the only slim chance we have to rid ourselves of the cencerous Jones.

Rossm

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2022, 10:43:53 AM »
England rugby are becoming more hated amongst rugby fans under Jones, and it is worrying that a lot of those are actually English.

Im an England supporter but not now. I was glad Scotland won and in my dreams Italy will beat England next weekend. Its the only slim chance we have to rid ourselves of the cencerous Jones.

I fear this particular tumour is inoperable.
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Westy68

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2022, 10:54:32 AM »
Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

Also it was LCD who messed up not Jamie George

Rossm

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2022, 11:07:19 AM »
Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

Also it was LCD who messed up not Jamie George

The point the author was actually making:

If only that were the sole howler. The Jamie George error was way beyond embarrassing and made one wonder what the coaching staff do with all those hours at Pennyhill Park? Not go through simple scenarios, it appears.

The hooker gets a yellow, you bring another on straight away. You do not oh so cleverly wait for the next scrum, when the rules state a dedicated No 2 has to be in action. Because if the next set-piece is a lineout and the hooker is not ready, you have the almost surreal sight of Joe Marler throwing in.


I don't think he was meaning LCD's brain fart but the fact that Jones held off bringing on George ASAP.
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Nigel Med

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2022, 11:17:47 AM »
Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

Also it was LCD who messed up not Jamie George
I think he was making the point that Jamie George should have been bought on as soon as LCD was yellow carded rather than the usual practice which is to wait for the next scrum. They could also have bought George on prior to the line out, the error was unquestionably allowing Marler to take the throw, that has to be the coaching staff's (i.e. Eddie jones) responsibility.

You would hope that an international team would be coached on how to deal with unusual circumstances like how to deal with being isolated facing a cross field kick. I'm not convinced that trying to catch the ball was the best option (although definitely better than deliberately knocking it into touch) It's too risky, spill the ball and the opposition winger picks it up and scores. catch it and go to ground and you run the risk of the winger winning a penalty for not releasing. Surely, as you are running across the pitch at pace, having noticed the advancing winger (which LCD definitely did) you allow him to go for the ball and time your run to clatter him. Good chance of him spilling the ball and you win a scrum or you drive him into touch and get the line out. Definitely lower risk. Would an International team not discuss these options in such a scenario? TCUP as Woodward used to preach. Noticeably absent from everyone in the England camp, players and coaches.


bigad82

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Re: The question everybody is asking.......................
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2022, 11:40:48 AM »
I have tickets for the Ireland game,as it is Eddie has made it quite unappealing.