Wasps injury updates for Harlequins trip and England duo latest.

[Jac A]

I know that criticism of Eddie Jones is standard practice but I do think we sometime expect too much and if it was a head coach other than Jones then their every action and inaction wouldn't be criticised in such fine detail.

To me these decision do seem to make sense. If Simmonds is out then Alfie would be the best replacement and England have been missing Launchbury for some time. We may feel that them playing club games is best but Jones disagrees and has made this clear many times that he thinks international rugby is a different standard and would rather have time with the players in camp. Aflie and Joe have only had a couple of days so the extended time from now 'till the Wales game gives Jones and the coaches plenty of time to ensure their fitness is at the standard they require and run plays etc. Yes, it's annoying for us but it is what it is.

Re Marler, he's under no obligation to say why he has been released but Marler's mental health issues are known and he has been very open about some of them and it may be that it was felt he would benefit from some time out of the camp, alternatively he may have a slight niggle or something similar. I don't think that any coach should feel required to give full explanation for every decision they make. Look at Leicester for instance and they don't release any information on injuries etc.

Having touched on mental health I once again see that Jones is described as 'mental Eddie'. As someone who has spent their while life dealing with acute mental health issues it saddens me when I see 'mental' used as a pejorative slur. I have almost given up trying to explain how the continued normalisation of 'mental' as an insult makes an already difficult life even more challenging for those who live with various conditions as it increases the stigma, inhibits understanding and makes it more difficult to be open and honest about your condition.
I don't want to be the 'word' or 'thought' police and I have been told to 'bore off', 'it's just banter', 'stop being so 'woke'' etc enough time to know that with a lot of people it is pointless but I thought I'd say anyway.

[baldpaul101]

Agree with most of that Jac A

[califauna]

Herein is a big part of the problem. EJ doesn’t think he needs to communicate to fans what he’s doing and why. It’s the lack of respect, not the action itself. We may not agree with him if he told us, but at least we be able to accept his reasoning, or not.

Eddie operates a mushroom strategy - feeds us shit and keeps us in the dark  .

The thing is, most of the time he can't communicate his reasons for strategic or other reasons. For example, part of the reason he takes players into camp sometimes is to balance the disadvantage suffered by the clubs as a result of taking away their best players. The RFU and corporate sponsors especially won't let him openly talk about this though, for the same reason the press don't talk about his constant sandbagging and experimentation in the Six Nations. The official story is that the premiership is the 'greatest domestic rugby league in the world', and the 6N is the 'world's greatest rugby championship'. The fact that the former is decimated by international tournaments every year and the latter is basically a sandpit for WC 2023 in Eddie and RFU's eyes is hardly something the sponsors want pointed out to fans, partners and potential subscribers.

Exeter for example have been decimated by England selections and their entire domestic season is compromised by it. For some teams it will be the difference between playoffs and Europe, and nothing. Clubs are obviously going to pressure the RFU and England to try and keep the playing field somewhat even. 

For example, Launchbury could be a logical choice for the above reasons, plus the fact that he wants to onboard him even if he doesn't play in the short term, because he is part of England's longer term plans.  There could be any number of reasons which we are just not privy to.

[califauna]

People tend to take the oversimplified and usually dogma driven narrative one gets from the press on Eddie Jones, England selections, Rugby and everything else far too seriously. Is he 'stubborn', or 'narcissistic', or a 'dictator' etc. etc? The players don't appear to think so in general, but let's just say he is for arguments sake. It doesn't change the fact that his strategy and performance is constantly monitored and reviewed by the RFU and he would be fired immediately if what he's doing now wasn't part of a coherent strategy towards WC 2023.  There would also be an immediate mutiny from England's players if selections were as senseless as some make out.

The thing that some armchair analysts need to remember is that if his strategy were transparent, obvious to us even, then he probably wouldn't be doing his job right.

Art of war!

[mike909]

The problem is that the “fate” or even “integrity” of the GP is being decided on the whim of a crass egotist. Release Marler? Why? Maybe there is a reason. Keep two players in a training camp who’ve just got back into their stride and really need match minutes. It’s insane. The sooner we’re rid of this joker the better.

+3

And let alone the tactics that now appear to be in place "let's have a holding pattern of random backs until Manu is fit"....

[hopwood]

It doesn't change the fact that his strategy and performance is constantly monitored and reviewed by the RFU

Califauna….where do you get this from?
Who at the RFU has been constantly monitoring and reviewing Eddie’s performance?
Or more to the point, what qualifications do these monitors have?

I’d like to know which experienced rugby expert Eddie is actually accountable to?

[Westy68]

The thing that some armchair analysts need to remember is that if his strategy were transparent, obvious to us even, then he probably wouldn't be doing his job right.

Well i'm totally confused, I thought it was about winning games and not playing players out of position. Is he hoping that the other team things we not that good and not try so hard. I apricate we might not know how to do a training day but I do know you don't play Curry at 8 or Elliot Daly at full back

[Raggs]

The problem is that the “fate” or even “integrity” of the GP is being decided on the whim of a crass egotist. Release Marler? Why? Maybe there is a reason. Keep two players in a training camp who’ve just got back into their stride and really need match minutes. It’s insane. The sooner we’re rid of this joker the better.

Herein is a big part of the problem. EJ doesn’t think he needs to communicate to fans what he’s doing and why. It’s the lack of respect, not the action itself. We may not agree with him if he told us, but at least we be able to accept his reasoning, or not.

If he told us, he's also telling the other nations his plans.

Why does he need to tell us?

[Westy68]

The problem is that the “fate” or even “integrity” of the GP is being decided on the whim of a crass egotist. Release Marler? Why? Maybe there is a reason. Keep two players in a training camp who’ve just got back into their stride and really need match minutes. It’s insane. The sooner we’re rid of this joker the better.

Herein is a big part of the problem. EJ doesn’t think he needs to communicate to fans what he’s doing and why. It’s the lack of respect, not the action itself. We may not agree with him if he told us, but at least we be able to accept his reasoning, or not.

If he told us, he's also telling the other nations his plans.

Why does he need to tell us?

I agree, not interested about him telling us anything, I just want him to win something, why would you not take the 6 nations seriously. Especially when you haven't won the 6 Nations for 5 years. 5th last season is totally unacceptable and the likely chance this year we might finish 4th at best. Coaches are paid to win games and that's how you are judged. Highest paid coach needs to show he is good, doing something odd and still losing isn't going to do it.

[MarleyWasp]

I know the last two years have felt like a drag, but I'm pretty certain it's not been five years since England won the 2020 Six Nations.

[Raggs]

I agree, not interested about him telling us anything, I just want him to win something, why would you not take the 6 nations seriously. Especially when you haven't won the 6 Nations for 5 years. 5th last season is totally unacceptable and the likely chance this year we might finish 4th at best. Coaches are paid to win games and that's how you are judged. Highest paid coach needs to show he is good, doing something odd and still losing isn't going to do it.

4th at best seems like quite a statement considering we're currently sat in 2nd. I know we've had Italy already, but there's a long way to go.

[Westy68]

I know the last two years have felt like a drag, but I'm pretty certain it's not been five years since England won the 2020 Six Nations.

Sorry I meant the slam, which was in his first year

[Shugs]

There’s a solution to it. Don’t play GP games when the 6N is on. Reduce that window by dropping Italy who are not good enough to be in it anyway. Everyone gets a natural week off due to only five competing. You can then insert a couple of Prem cup games for part of the 6N and either bring the season forward a week or two and extend it to fit it all in.

[westwaleswasp]

The reason Eddie keeps getting criticism is he is (a) very disrespectful, throwing verbal hand grenades and talks about other teams, including those England are not playing, in a way that many England fans find distasteful and (b) He seems to think the world cup is a 4 year (or 8 year) plan that requires England to play terribly for long term gain whilst playing multiple players out of positions and changing his assistant coaches every few months. Which might be news to South Africa, who in 2016 were literally losing to Italy and won the whole thing in 2019 by simply the changing head coaching +  team once and picking their best players on a game by game basis. The world cup is a year or 18 month plan at best, nothing done in 2021 or 2020 will be impacting 2023 beyond selecting good players and sticking with them.  I have heard a lot of utter garbage about over training training now for two years/eighteen months time or whatever. It is utter, utter tosh. You don't hear of the All Blacks beasting their players to death's door and their fans or management saying "it is ok, they are planing for 24 months time". You cannot overtrain now and produce long term results in two years, a simple look at the teams from two years ago will tell you that they are not the same players, will have played and missed lots of games and had lots on injuries in the intervening time and whilst there might be the odd sports scientist spouting on about bollock naked emperors two years in the future, I have, to be honest, very rarely met sports scientists spouting such twaddle. Most think in far smaller timescales. (c) He keeps failing to beat Scotland, something symbolic of the fact that he has a worse 6N record than Lancaster by some margin, especially post 2017 (d) His teams have come across as sourly, especially in defeat. Whilst some of them have acquitted themselves well, some of the post match interviews have revealed a culture that should be stamped out. (e) Eddie himself keeps having a pop and journalists in a way that makes him seem like a total arse, without a record to back it up. When a winner behaves like that, as happens in football with successful managers, at least the fans can point to their record and excuse awful behaviour with "they are a winner, it is part of who they are". Eddie does not have that excuse, and behaves in a way that makes him seem petty and thin skinned. It is a 5 team tournament, in reality, and his overall record does not suggest he should be spouting off in a way reminiscent of Jose mourhino, Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson. A few cues from Dai Young or Rob Baxter would not go amiss.

The RFU don't have top coaches or a head honcho monitoring Eddie, and they don't have a succession plan. If they did, after the last world cup Eddie would have left and been thanked for two great years, two poor ones and a great world cup.

[califauna]

Califauna….where do you get this from?

He's contracted by and accountable to RFU.  They are the people who decide to hire and fire him, so naturally they are going to be looking at how/what he is doing. When England came 4th in 2020 6N nations you must remember all the hubbub? RFU said independent experts would be brought in and EJ would be under constant review going forward, etc?

So, there's are a few possibilities as I see it:
1. EJ is a narcissistic, delusional, megalomaniac with totalitarian control over English Rugby and no concern for his future employment prospects, on a crusade to stick it to journalists and fans everywhere by any means possible, including shafting his own employers and their national team.
2. He is a double agent inserted by Dave Rennie so Australia win WC 2023.
3. There is a rational strategy to be found here.

I can appreciate and sympathize with those who are disillusioned with performances and the style of rugby over the last few years, as well as EJ's evasiveness in interviews, but EJs and RFU's main priority is WC2023. Until EJ came along we hadn't reached a WC final since 2007. They've been pretty clear about it. 
The reality of playing winning rugby is that you show your hand to the armies of analysts and coaches of other national teams when you play your best players in their best positions playing their best style of rugby, and divulge information to journalists. As pointed out by others above, what we know, everyone else knows.

We don't quite have the players that France, SA and maybe NZ have, and the established depth in my opinion. The edge has to come from somewhere. I think the heavy rotation of players and versatility focus is logical, at least credible.  It raises the overall ceiling of the players, allows us to come into tournies as underdogs, takes players out of their comfort zones, provides some legal sandbagging and hides where squad is at, disguises playing structures and shapes until WC, changes the dynamic of competition from player vs player to players vs players (less personal), and allows focusing on timing a peak for WC 2023.  Also increases probability of discovering 'hidden' gems like Curry and Underhill in 2017.

Frustrating if you're looking for winning performances in the meantime though.