Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Dean Richards charged with "Conduct prejudicial to the interests of the union"  (Read 3063 times)

Chunky24

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What percentage of decisions as a measure do you want a human referee to get right before you consider him acceptable to not spoil human players jobs, given that at any breakdown / set piece there are numerous offences they could call, they can only give one out of that number so are they automatically wrong in all the others they don't give at that breakdown but that a coach / player might think they should have?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 03:31:25 PM by Chunky24 »

RogerE

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He got a 3 match ban!

Chunky24

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He got a 3 match ban!

Plus this essential listening

" is also required to do a presentation to his club and a local school or grassroots club about the need for respect for match officials."

NellyWellyWaspy

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What percentage of decisions as a measure do you want a human referee to get right before you consider him acceptable to not spoil human players jobs, given that at any breakdown / set piece there are numerous offences they could call, they can only give one out of that number so are they automatically wrong in all the others they don't give at that breakdown but that a coach / player might think they should have?

Many jobs have such measures. For example, what percentage of errors would you accept of a 'human' heart surgeon? 1 in 10, 1 in 20, 1 in 50?

In this day and age of multiple camera angles, decisions can be measured, missed incidents noted. How did a referee miss a high tackle? Was it field placement? Did the TMO miss it, how, if it is on the 'tapes'? Did the referee do a Barnes and simply say 'I didn't see it (so it didn't happen)'? It isn't all about what they got wrong and didn't see. Even when they see it, it is about their intransigence. Some refs say, 'You know what, I think I got that wrong, let's have a closer look.' I saw a French ref do just that the other day. 'Just a knock on' became a yellow, and almost a penalty try.

We lost last week. The ref (was it Carley, I can't recall right now?) had a good game. He made a couple of mistakes, we all do in life. But, he was fair to both sides. I cannot say that of the ref in charge of the Newcastle game, and I did watch the game. What I did think was, he is going to bed tonight knowing he made a hash of that. If he didn't think that, then there is something really wrong.

Chunky24

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What percentage of decisions as a measure do you want a human referee to get right before you consider him acceptable to not spoil human players jobs, given that at any breakdown / set piece there are numerous offences they could call, they can only give one out of that number so are they automatically wrong in all the others they don't give at that breakdown but that a coach / player might think they should have?

Many jobs have such measures. For example, what percentage of errors would you accept of a 'human' heart surgeon? 1 in 10, 1 in 20, 1 in 50?

In this day and age of multiple camera angles, decisions can be measured, missed incidents noted. How did a referee miss a high tackle? Was it field placement? Did the TMO miss it, how, if it is on the 'tapes'? Did the referee do a Barnes and simply say 'I didn't see it (so it didn't happen)'? It isn't all about what they got wrong and didn't see. Even when they see it, it is about their intransigence. Some refs say, 'You know what, I think I got that wrong, let's have a closer look.' I saw a French ref do just that the other day. 'Just a knock on' became a yellow, and almost a penalty try.

We lost last week. The ref (was it Carley, I can't recall right now?) had a good game. He made a couple of mistakes, we all do in life. But, he was fair to both sides. I cannot say that of the ref in charge of the Newcastle game, and I did watch the game. What I did think was, he is going to bed tonight knowing he made a hash of that. If he didn't think that, then there is something really wrong.

Not sure comparing error rate for someone who might spoil professional rugby players jobs with someone who has a life in their hand is relevant.

But as you mention anything involving humans has error, factor in 15 humans competing against another 15 both with opposite goals trying to be moderated by another human there are going to be huge grey areas and interpretation even within guidelines such as laws of the game.

So if it takes multiple camera angles to decide if a high tackle / knock on was missed which are yes / no decisions what about the scenarios I mention at the breakdown / set piece where the ref as well as coaches and players from both sides can be right about a possible penalty but only 1 can be given.

What did I do when I played and thought refs didn't know what they were doing, went and did the course, refereed games and put myself in that unenviable situation and experienced what they go through during and after games.

NellyWellyWaspy

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What did I do when I played and thought refs didn't know what they were doing, went and did the course, refereed games and put myself in that unenviable situation and experienced what they go through during and after games.

Wow. Kudos. I know I would be totally useless at that, even when I had been fit (which I surely am not now). Passing a course, sure, but reffing a game? Start me at tag rugby maybe. With young uns, so they (at that age) would be slightly shorter than me.

westwaleswasp

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Interesting to see Mr Richard's eyesight has improved enough to comment on these incidents. Last I remember he was having some difficulty there.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-josh-bassett-newcastle-falcons-20218920

Of course, Mr Richards' views on red cards don't always involve criticising refs, sometimes players too, like our Jimmy, making a meal of it

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/tom-penny-disciplinary-newcastle-falcons-21785247

Of course, being frustrated with refs does seem to be a pretty constant   topic with him.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/dean-richards-frustrated-by-refereeing-as-newcastle-slip-to-defeat-against-wasps-34576319.html

I think I am beginning to spot a theme here.








Rossm

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Interesting to see Mr Richard's eyesight has improved enough to comment on these incidents. Last I remember he was having some difficulty there.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-josh-bassett-newcastle-falcons-20218920

Of course, Mr Richards' views on red cards don't always involve criticising refs, sometimes players too, like our Jimmy, making a meal of it

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/tom-penny-disciplinary-newcastle-falcons-21785247

Of course, being frustrated with refs does seem to be a pretty constant   topic with him.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/dean-richards-frustrated-by-refereeing-as-newcastle-slip-to-defeat-against-wasps-34576319.html

I think I am beginning to spot a theme here.

So bloodgate was actually entirely the ref's fault?
SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

califauna

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I don't see how this authoritarian/paternalistic stance is ever going to work to be honest. I think the The DORs and Head Coaches are a just going to keep triggering the unions and World Rugby because they know the psychological edge they gain from the 'us against them mentality' that the disciplinary action and public admonishments of their coaches creates . Look how effective that kind of mentality was for SA in the Lions series, and Quins last year in the prem.  Cynical, but it's the reality now I think. Teams will do whatever it takes to find an edge.

That's not to say they don't have a point in my view. For me the consistency, general standard, level of professionalism and general culture surrounding officiating and the administration side of things in rugby is shocking.  The nature of the game seems to generate a lot of gray areas, but there is sooooo much low hanging fruit they just refuse to take ( 5 second rule, timewasting in games, water-boys, scrum contest criteria, formalization of absolutely basic concepts like grounding, forward pass, etc.) with direct consequences for the quality of the sport, and additionally player safety as many of these no-brainers also incentivize aerobic fitness and thus smaller players.  Fuzziness can only explain so much here.



« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 11:06:45 PM by califauna »

Andywasp50

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Interesting to see Mr Richard's eyesight has improved enough to comment on these incidents. Last I remember he was having some difficulty there.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-josh-bassett-newcastle-falcons-20218920

Of course, Mr Richards' views on red cards don't always involve criticising refs, sometimes players too, like our Jimmy, making a meal of it

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/tom-penny-disciplinary-newcastle-falcons-21785247

Of course, being frustrated with refs does seem to be a pretty constant   topic with him.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/dean-richards-frustrated-by-refereeing-as-newcastle-slip-to-defeat-against-wasps-34576319.html

I think I am beginning to spot a theme here.

So bloodgate was actually entirely the ref's fault?

 :) Both these posts are spot on and what I (eye!?) was thinking. Deano’s got a rather long history of ‘previous’..
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 11:44:13 PM by Andywasp50 »

Brandnewtorugby

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It always comes across poorly when a DoR does this and doesn't seem very likely to achieve anything positive. I think Steve Diamond may have managed to get a positive effect for his team, but as far as I remember he did make his point referencing data about wrong decisions in the referee reports.

DGP Wasp

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Many jobs have such measures. For example, what percentage of errors would you accept of a 'human' heart surgeon? 1 in 10, 1 in 20, 1 in 50?

Ridiculous, childish comparison! (Bring back that smite button!)

We all make wrong decisions in our work on a regular basis, but not with anything like the same consequences as a heart surgeon.  I'm not even going to waste my time pointing out the all too obvious differences in the working environment of a heart surgeon and a rugby referee.

Rossm

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Many jobs have such measures. For example, what percentage of errors would you accept of a 'human' heart surgeon? 1 in 10, 1 in 20, 1 in 50?

Ridiculous, childish comparison! (Bring back that smite button!)

We all make wrong decisions in our work on a regular basis, but not with anything like the same consequences as a heart surgeon.  I'm not even going to waste my time pointing out the all too obvious differences in the working environment of a heart surgeon and a rugby referee.

At least your patient can't wake up in the middle of the op and call you 'a f*cking cheat*😂
SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

DGP Wasp

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Many jobs have such measures. For example, what percentage of errors would you accept of a 'human' heart surgeon? 1 in 10, 1 in 20, 1 in 50?

Ridiculous, childish comparison! (Bring back that smite button!)

We all make wrong decisions in our work on a regular basis, but not with anything like the same consequences as a heart surgeon.  I'm not even going to waste my time pointing out the all too obvious differences in the working environment of a heart surgeon and a rugby referee.

At least your patient can't wake up in the middle of the op and call you 'a f*cking cheat*😂

Well you'd certainly hope not!  ;)

WonkyWasp

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Well, yes you can   I woke up in the middle of a Caesarean and announced in loud tones "i'm conscious".