Northampton Saints v Wasps: Post match thoughts.

[Covkid40]

Genuine question to throw out there. With the players at our disposal and the way we are and have been playing for a long time is it time to start looking at the coaching

I think Lee and the coaches are struggling to work out how we want to play the game.

I don’t see a game plan when we play we have no structure and no idea and for me that comes from the top. Hate to say it but it might be time for a change.

[Shugs]

As an aside. Could someone explain what to do with a goal line drop out? I've seen plenty of sides get themselves into trouble with it. I don't think I've seen a team handle it well. Have coaches simply not worked out how best to use it? Or was the law change not properly thought through?

Usually it seems to be hoofed as far up field as possible and there is absolutely no chance of a kick chase. Is there a better way?

What happens if you put it into touch - not sure?

[Rossm]

Genuine question to throw out there. With the players at our disposal and the way we are and have been playing for a long time is it time to start looking at the coaching

I think Lee and the coaches are struggling to work out how we want to play the game.

I don’t see a game plan when we play we have no structure and no idea and for me that comes from the top. Hate to say it but it might be time for a change.

Lets have a bit of constructive criticism. Just who would you fire and why? Unlike prem football, rugby is not awash with money and if you break a contract then there has to be compensation paid. I'm sure the RFU would happily get shot of Jones IF they didn't have to pay him off.

[hookender]

As an aside. Could someone explain what to do with a goal line drop out? I've seen plenty of sides get themselves into trouble with it. I don't think I've seen a team handle it well. Have coaches simply not worked out how best to use it? Or was the law change not properly thought through?

Usually it seems to be hoofed as far up field as possible and there is absolutely no chance of a kick chase. Is there a better way?

What happens if you put it into touch - not sure?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiKztGf1MP2AhUxREEAHTVpBpAQtwJ6BAgDEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rugbypass.com%2Fnews%2Fref-watch-5022-and-the-goal-line-drop-out-explained%2F&usg=AOvVaw0O5cZv774iaQaJw6qKISmI

[HDAWG]

I know we've had injuries, but we just look so bad. Some good moments, but still bad.

This is largely the same group of players that took us to a prem final... And arguably same coaching structure.

Screw it, I think Lee was better when he took over pre covid and just said "do what you want". Since then we've focused on structure and lost our identity. I've no idea what we are anymore. We aren't a forwards driven team like Leicester, nor a defensive constricting side like Sale, or an exciting backs driven team like Quins or more recently Irish.

I just don't think we know what we're doing. What really irritates me is we had a pre season and new training facilities to sort out problems from last season. We just look really generic.

I blame coaching. I'd either get a DOR to oversee or replace Lee.

[Shugs]

Thanks - not an option then. So just carry on hoofing it as far as you can.

[Shugs]

We don’t have enough control anywhere to impart an identity. When you make so many basic errors no cohesion is allowed through.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Genuine question to throw out there. With the players at our disposal and the way we are and have been playing for a long time is it time to start looking at the coaching

Depends what you mean. I certainly wouldn’t be considering getting rid of anyone. But I do think we need to find an identity to our play and a leader in the backs. We’re all at sea there at the moment but look capable of scoring once Porter comes on. I’m not so sure is coaching as much as multiple players being so far below par (Gopperth, Robson, Watson, Bassett).

Let me turn it around. What evidence is there that our coaching has done anything to improve the players we have?

It seems acceptable to simply say a bunch of formerly great players are all underperforming. But not that the coaching team is.

Perhaps those players who we used to think of as class, that were clearly on field leaders, aren't out of form? Perhaps they are just doing what they are told to by the coaches?

How many other teams in the GP don't have a DOR?

[HDAWG]

We don’t have enough control anywhere to impart an identity. When you make so many basic errors no cohesion is allowed through.

My comment in identity is Wrt the she season. I've no idea what we are anymore.

[Shugs]

Genuine question to throw out there. With the players at our disposal and the way we are and have been playing for a long time is it time to start looking at the coaching

Depends what you mean. I certainly wouldn’t be considering getting rid of anyone. But I do think we need to find an identity to our play and a leader in the backs. We’re all at sea there at the moment but look capable of scoring once Porter comes on. I’m not so sure is coaching as much as multiple players being so far below par (Gopperth, Robson, Watson, Bassett).

Let me turn it around. What evidence is there that our coaching has done anything to improve the players we have?

It seems acceptable to simply say a bunch of formerly great players are all underperforming. But not that the coaching team is.

Perhaps those players who we used to think of as class, that were clearly on field leaders, aren't out of form? Perhaps they are just doing what they are told to by the coaches?

How many other teams in the GP don't have a DOR?

I do think it’s more to do with the players. There is nothing coaches can do about handling errors, kicks out on the full, simple drops, ridiculous penalties and sky high passes. But let’s say you’re right - who are you getting rid of and who comes in?

[JF]

When we get it right we can be unstoppable, it's just that it happens sorarely and we are, generally, very stoppable.

I've bene saying this for years but we tend to ship a bonus point's worth of points in most games. That's a big handicap. If it's not the players, then it must be the coaching staff, but I suspect it's a mixture of both and we don't know the ratios.

We don't seem to be ruthless enough to bench players who are either having a dip in form or are in decline. That seems to extend to the coaching staff as well.

[mike909]

Damn. Disappointed given that when not pissing about, we seemed to have a decent way of playing - described on commentary as fast off ruck and moving towards the outside (to precis).

But just like in other weeks - individuals have been showing ok to decent, but too often it looks like we met in the car park and have a tendency to try it on, when too often a recycle and a kick might well be better options.

Easy to blame the reffing, but we can be poor and the reffing random on the same day and that's what it was for me. We didn't manage the reffing well (like Ireland yesterday - but they had the advantage of playing well for about 10 mins...)

We are currently less than the sum of our parts and a change is required - if that means one on the coaching side then perhaps it is time for such a change. But we have the playing resources and will have more next season such that we can put out a pack on paper that is probably better than most, international teams included. Someone needs to talk to Dan R to get to the bottom of what his problems are. There has to be something in the "top two inches".

But what we can't do is do nothing and hope that something clicks...

[Andywasp50]

I agree with the coaching issue - maybe Lee’s too nice a bloke - but nothing is has improved over the last couple of seasons. There’s no structure or game plan and I think Lee and co are also being carried by those reliable players listed earlier. I would put Mitchell in charge but now he’s signed up with Japan it’s not viable.

The other huge issue for me is the lack of a Premiership quality 10. Umaga is an improvement on Atkinson because he takes the ball to the line, but his all round game is shabby and shockingly amateur at times. The sliced kick he decided had gone out and left everyone offside because he didn’t follow up - dropping the ball one handed for our try and getting away with it (lucky the TMO wasn’t on the ball), chucking silly passes and just not wanting to tackle.

At times today were were all over the place and our passing was poor. We consistently lost collisions and went backwards when Saints built phases. The kicking from hand wasn’t good enough didn’t allow us to take the pressure off when we needed to get up field.

Not much will change until we get a decent 10 to build our game around. I’d also immediately put Mitchell in charge of defence so we can create some kind of stable base to build from.

[Mellie]

Maybe Mitchell is the problem. Our attack, which is his role, hasn't looked that good all season!

[Westy68]

I agree, I think 10 is our problem Jacob just isn’t good enough. He come across as not interested/bothered.

Charlie is a long way from ready but I think/hope he will get there. I think he has been chucked into the deep end and is struggling to keep his head above water.

We have struggled for 2 seasons with our 10 and it’s really costing us. Let’s hope a 10 is announced soon, I will be amazed if it’s not a priority