RFU support EJ’s continuance

[mike909]

+1

If we are honest we get dropped and won't play in the RWC. If we stay quiet and go along with the coaches, then we won't be good enough to challenge.....

Seems that the article in NZ about how Jones always loses the dressing room in the end was the reality of "life with the Jones'"

[westwaleswasp]

While we are shovelling the shite in Eddie's direction, here is some more hot brown stuff for Eddie to chew on.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/20/eddie-jones-france-ireland-england-six-nations

I particularly like
"As things stand the only areas in which the RFU is currently leading the world are mediocrity and half-baked excuses. Jones seems to have increasingly little empathy with the English public, only a hazy knowledge of talent coming through and a lack of awareness of just how much the Six Nations matters perception-wise. "

My feelings, as I have written on DW, are that the Autumn Nations cup was Eddie's version of the Lancaster tour of NZ, the nexus moment from which it has all started to unravell. Had Eddie made team changes to evolve the team for that things would have been different. Instead the wheels came off and it is much harder to make adjustments when the wheels have left skid marks down memory lane. Everything has followed from that, but this perception of Eddie as a great coach needs to stop- his results minus Italy, Argentina and other tier 2 teams we nearly always beat are significantly worse than Woodward's vs France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and SA, and only better vs Australia. He has 1/2 vs NZ, and thus gets spared Woodward's 2/8 record, not playing them often does not make him a great coach. His 6n is significantly worse than Lancaster and Woodward, no better than Robinson, Johnson or Ashton.

[Shugs]

I agree with that. Brian Moore may be right - England may not have the players. The problem is that we don’t know as selection has been so stale. For at least 18 months we should have been building around a Smith/Mitchell or Spencer or Robson 9-10 axis with Ford as the back up 10. Malins should be the nailed on 15. We should have seen our best wingers such as Radwan, Thorley or Hassell-Collins given a run. We don’t have a class 12 but we did have the likes of Atkinson/James/Devoto who were natural fits. At 13 we discarded Lawrence who is a naturally gifted prospect and should have rotated with Slade. In the forwards we have had endless back row options but insisted on playing a lock there and the stand out 8 in the prem / Dombrandt has just broken through even though he’s been the best 8 for 2 years. Jones compounded that by playing our best 7 at 8.  There are some players I’m sure we’d all select but as a playing pool, say two in all positions I’d like to have seen:
TH: Sinckler, Stuart
LH: Marler, Genge
Hooker : Cowan-Dickie, Singleton
Locks: Itoje, Lawes, Ribbans,
Six: Shields, Ewers
Seven : Curry, Willis
Eight: Dombrandt, T Willis
Nine: Mitchell, Robson, Spencer
Ten: Smith, Ford
Eleven & Fourteen: Radwan, Nowell, Hassell-Collins, Thorley, Odogwu??
Twelve: Atkinson, Devoto, James
Thirteen: Slade, Lawrence
Fifteen: Malins, Steward.

[mike909]

Good selection. We may not have a "2003 vintage" squad - but we're consistently in the last 2 6Ns less than the sum of the parts

We had a decent way of playing - we did it vs France last 6Ns - it's partly the selection, but the greater issue is why we only played well for about 30 mins vs Wales last 6N and vs France and then went on to look so shabby vs Ireland and then culled players as if it was their fault

We didn't give prospects a chance - vs Scotland last season Lawrence at 12 (out of position....) received ONE pass before being subbed.

As for what might be a good fit - we can always compete up front - but I am no fan of Lawes at 6 - and I do think if fit and on form, for the short term, the Vunipola bros have something to contribute.

In the backs - if what Nowell is quoted as saying "we never train in the same positions" is correct - then there is every prospect that England aren't coherent behind the pack as we're spending too long pissing about. I also think Nowell is not showing the required form. I'm concerned that Steward is more of a "Mike Brown Tribute" than a modern 15

But a backline - playing fairly conservatively - but not fouling up or missing tackles would make for a competitive team behind an effective pack and good set piece. We were v lucky that France showed some nerves on Saturday night - as most other days, we'd have been three scores down very quickly indeed and on the receiving end of a trashing.

I really would want us to being playing Mitchell, Smith, Atkinson/Devoto, Lawrence, Radwan, Thorley (Joe if fit) Malins and play such that we look to release the back three using pace and Lawrence using power and Devoto to provide alongside Malins a choice of "second 5/8th)

But stop the "big idea" stuff IRO "numbers don't count" and use people in their best position, I really don't get why you'd want a backline of alternatives at first receiver - when with really quick ruck speeds - the 10 is able to be in position. If there was some "new" way of playing, you'd have expected NZ, Aus or France to have noticed.....

Certainly the SH critics of how England have been playing suggest that the key area of adaptability missing is at ruck time and that too few backs were effective in securing own ruck ball...That can be worked upon - but in partnership with a more mobile back row. Not including Lawes as 6. Wasps have a better backrow than England....which ought not to be the case (Brad plus Willis x 2 is better as a unit than what's been on offer)

[mike909]

Or to precis my rather long post above....It's always fun to select teams, and it's not so hard to pick a starting XV for England that would work - but the bigger question is how would they play...

Mako, LCD, Sinckler, Maro, Launch, Underhill, Billy and Jack W, Randall, Smith, Farrell, Marchant, May, Watson ,Malins works well combining carrying and pace. And was the spine of the team that beat France last 6Ns (missing Wilson, Ewels, Ford, Youngs Slade and Curry) but played off ball carrying, power at breakdown and pace plus discipline IRO penalties.

The worry being that a v similar team a week later folded to an Ireland team playing well but not brilliantly. The identical starting pack to France....and the same wide pace and halfback experience. That was the game that really stuck...as to why. Showing for England that often it can be the how rather than the who.

Saturday showed how you limit you options if you decide to not select ball carriers nor out and out pace and hope kick chase will be the difference.

[bournender2]

As one of those who have been upset by EJ's contortions, and also agreeing with most of the comments already made, I also find it hard to disagree with the guy who wrote this about what will happen, and what he thinks would now be better selections for the WC - including a few of our boys!

https://www.planetrugby.com/opinion-five-busted-myths-about-england-after-six-nations-and-what-eddie-jones-needs-to-do-before-rugby-world-cup/

[Rossm]

As one of those who have been upset by EJ's contortions, and also agreeing with most of the comments already made, I also find it hard to disagree with the guy who wrote this about what will happen, and what he thinks would now be better selections for the WC - including a few of our boys!

https://www.planetrugby.com/opinion-five-busted-myths-about-england-after-six-nations-and-what-eddie-jones-needs-to-do-before-rugby-world-cup/

It's time someone noticed the importance of Brad.👍

[mike909]

Interesting piece that seems to contradict itself too often. England didn't gain from Genge running lots for no ne gain, anymore than they did last 6Ns vs Scotland with Billy doing it....Slade is suffering from being at 12 and inside another player a lot of the time and if jones is asking him to play all over and it's not working, then that's a coaching choice and problem.

England haven't had line breakers in the backs that often and Manu is generally better at 13, it's not a 12 solution for me. England's most winningest backline under Jones has been OF, JJ at centre, but with pace and Billy at 8.

Lawes is a conundrum for me - he seems to supply what Underhill does - and fails to score, one try in 90 caps? Hardly one in 5....and worse than Sam U. Doesn't offload - if a helpful line out option and tackler.

Pace - yep. And by no one;s imagination are Furbank and Steward pace...

So sure - the England set up isn't perfect - but that didn't stand in the way of several excellent periods since 2016 - but also the three worst 6Ns, the longest losing spell and what appears poor man management causing coaching turnover and player turnaround.

It ought not to be complicated to pick squads with the potential to win and play in the style that suits resources, c.f. the win vs France last season.....

[wasps]

What I really don't understand is that when Eddie came along he said we had no 7's.... And that we needed genuine openside flankers....
So much so, that he brought George Smith in for advice, and then proceeded to provide Haskell with a supposedly limited remit of what he wanted from an openside.

While Haskell didn't become Pocock overnight, he performed well.



So fast forward to now, where's Eddie's desire for an open side?
Curry is at 8 we have a lock at 6 and Underhill at 7.

It's like the complete opposite of looking for 7's

[Trevs Big Tackle]

What I really don't understand is that when Eddie came along he said we had no 7's.... And that we needed genuine openside flankers....
So much so, that he brought George Smith in for advice, and then proceeded to provide Haskell with a supposedly limited remit of what he wanted from an openside.

While Haskell didn't become Pocock overnight, he performed well.



So fast forward to now, where's Eddie's desire for an open side?
Curry is at 8 we have a lock at 6 and Underhill at 7.

It's like the complete opposite of looking for 7's

And then the RFU blame the Premiership for England being completely outplayed at the breakdown.

[mike909]

And then the RFU blame the Premiership for England being completely outplayed at the breakdown.

And yet seeing how this was the case last 6Ns - especially vs Scotland but also Wales and Ireland, here we are this 6Ns.....