What do we do about fly half?

[wasps]

I don't want to make too many excuses for them because things haven't been great recently.

But, if they're both being asked to play in a way that doesn't match their natural instincts, then that will certainly hurt their performances.



At that point, you either need a new gameplan, new coaches, or new players.

If kicking possession away is becoming part of our plan A game plan, then I'd be erring towards new game plan / coaches, because I don't really want players that will always go for a safety first, territory based game

[Westy68]

Isn’t coaching about a game plan and bringing in the right players who can perform with the right game plan.

Look at borthwick, excellent game plan and brought in the players who can follow the game plan.

It looks like our game plan is wrong and we have players who can’t any game plan. Lee needs to decide who are the right players for next season

[Rossm]

Isn’t coaching about a game plan and bringing in the right players who can perform with the right game plan.

Look at borthwick, excellent game plan and brought in the players who can follow the game plan.

It looks like our game plan is wrong and we have players who can’t any game plan. Lee needs to decide who are the right players for next season

I expect this has been done and dusted quite some time ago.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Isn’t coaching about a game plan and bringing in the right players who can perform with the right game plan.

Look at borthwick, excellent game plan and brought in the players who can follow the game plan.

It looks like our game plan is wrong and we have players who can’t any game plan. Lee needs to decide who are the right players for next season

It's partly that yes. But a good coach will always select a plan based on the strengths of the players, not the other way round.

And when you have a squad of players who are all at different stages of development you need to be running training in such a way as to allow them to develop their skills, hit their potential, and also allow the leaders in the squad to grow into their roles.

It's so much more than simply noticing that falcons aren't great against the long kicking game and deciding to hoof it upfield again and again.

The coaching team should be refining our abilities and developing our gameplay, and the analysts should be searching for weaknesses in the opposition that correspond to our strengths.

Based on the way we have played this season we have none of that.

[wasps]

Isn’t coaching about a game plan and bringing in the right players who can perform with the right game plan.

Look at borthwick, excellent game plan and brought in the players who can follow the game plan.

It looks like our game plan is wrong and we have players who can’t any game plan. Lee needs to decide who are the right players for next season

Absolutely.

My point was do we as fans want a game plan that involves lots of kicking and hoping that we'll get the ball back in a dangerous area?
Not that I'm saying that's what plan A is at the moment .... But if it were, and we brought in Ben Youngs and Owen Farrell type half backs, would we as Wasps fans be happy... Even if it meant that we won more games?


I'm not so sure I would be.


If that's the direction that a Wasps coaching team were moving in, I'd rather see that game plan or coaching team changed first

[Shugs]

For me it’s a chicken and egg situation. The best coaching set up in the world cannot succeed when your scrum is coughing up penalties, your kicking poorly for territory and you’re generally snatching at things. But is that frailty because they’re being coached to play a way that doesn’t sit comfortably. I’m just not sure. It’s our attack through the backs that has been the issue this year. Our forwards must have most of our tries. We’ve lacked options at 12 and 13 and played around at 15 and at 9 and 10 we’ve been patchy. But is that personnel based or a result of a desire for more pragmatism from the coaching staff? It will be interesting to see who we bring in to the backs. Odendaal looks a good addition but we need two or three more.

[backdoc]

A good coach will adapt to his/her resources. The signings are mostly to correct weaknesses.

The exceptions to this are Tigers and Sale [and formerly Cheats] bringing in heft from SA.

What I want to know is how some teams keep up their defensive intensity [Tigers] and others let it drift [Wasps].

[Vespula Vulgaris]

The best coaching set up in the world cannot succeed when your scrum is coughing up penalties, your kicking poorly for territory and you’re generally snatching at things.

I respectfully disagree with this.  Scrummaging is a physical skill, and like any physical skill it can be coached.  Yes players will have a degree of natural ability. But the idea that a physical skill cannot be improved by a good coach feels very strange to me. The same for kicking accuracy.  And as to snatching at things, that is 100% down to the coaches.  If they aren't giving the players what they need to be confident on the pitch, and the belief that they can make it happen, then we need shot of them asap.

[Shugs]

I take your point. But how do you then explain how West is a far better prop than Hislop. If it were down to coaching in the way you describe they’d be on a par with each other. But they’re not and West is just a better prop.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I take your point. But how do you then explain how West is a far better prop than Hislop. If it were down to coaching in the way you describe they’d be on a par with each other. But they’re not and West is just a better prop.

Because obviously natural ability varies from person to person.

I'm not sure why we're having this discussion, obviously proper coaching improves performance, or why else would every professional and amateur athlete in the world have a coaching team?

I'm sure Andy Murray's coaches do more than select him to play.

[13thWarrior]

I agree with other comments that is feels like the coaching staff are going all in on Umaga & Atkinson and we won't be seeing a signing. And I'm OK with that.

Umaga clearly has the ability to play at 10, it just needs unlocking consistently. I do think the "experience" with England has messed him up a bit but eventually he will get over it and I am optimistic will be the player we all hoped he could be a couple of seasons ago. It is very frustrating watching him as we all know what he is capable of but I don't think that means we give up.

Atkinson is further behind on his development curve so I would also not be too worried about whether he is performing like a first choice premiership 10 yet - that's just unrealistic. We as fans have to accept younger players not always performing well if we ever want the club to bring through talent rather than just ship it in. Of course, sometimes a player's development does not progress as expected, and then something needs to be done, but we're definitely not there with Atkinson yet, and I don't think so with Umaga either.

Having an in-form 9 and 12 either side will make a big difference to either of our 10s, and they have so rarely had that this season, thanks to injuries and key players not hitting their straps. If that is rectified (most likely when Odendaal joins as I don't feel optimistic about Mills...) then I think we will see a big difference in both 10s performances.

Basically I am saying keep the faith...

[Shugs]

I take your point. But how do you then explain how West is a far better prop than Hislop. If it were down to coaching in the way you describe they’d be on a par with each other. But they’re not and West is just a better prop.

Because obviously natural ability varies from person to person.

I'm not sure why we're having this discussion, obviously proper coaching improves performance, or why else would every professional and amateur athlete in the world have a coaching team?

I'm sure Andy Murray's coaches do more than select him to play.

Of course quality of coaching is important. My point is that we really don’t know if the scenario we’re facing is coaches ok but players out of form or players fine but being coached the wrong way. Possibly a bit of both.

[backdoc]

"I'm sure Andy Murray's coaches do more than select him to play."

Not a good example VV. I doubt if the coach has more than 1-2 bits of input a week for Andy.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

"I'm sure Andy Murray's coaches do more than select him to play."

Not a good example VV. I doubt if the coach has more than 1-2 bits of input a week for Andy.

Well yes, but based on what Lee said about what he was doing when we were actually winning perhaps that might be a good approach.

[Shugs]

I genuinely think there is some truth in that. We seem to have “tightened” up mentally which is showing in our play - especially our starting half backs. Porters delivery is so much quicker as he’s playing with instinct rather than thought. Umaga is trying to be magical as he’s feeling the pressure when all he needs to do most of the time is pass it on.